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Main Question put:
The House divided: Ayes 409, Noes 161.
Division No. 078][7.19 pm
AYES
Afriyie, Adam
Ainger, Nick
Ainsworth, rh Mr. Bob
Ainsworth, Mr. Peter
Alexander, rh Mr. Douglas
Allen, Mr. Graham
Amess, Mr. David
Anderson, Mr. David
Anderson, Janet
Arbuthnot, rh Mr. James
Armstrong, rh Hilary
Atkinson, Mr. Peter
Austin, Mr. Ian
Bacon, Mr. Richard
Bailey, Mr. Adrian
Baird, Vera
Baldry, Tony
Balls, Ed
Barker, Gregory
Barlow, Ms Celia
Baron, Mr. John
Barron, rh Mr. Kevin
Battle, rh John
Beckett, rh Margaret
Bellingham, Mr. Henry
Benn, rh Hilary
Benyon, Mr. Richard
Bercow, John
Beresford, Sir Paul
Betts, Mr. Clive
Binley, Mr. Brian
Blackman, Liz
Blackman-Woods, Dr. Roberta
Blair, rh Mr. Tony
Blears, rh Hazel
Blizzard, Mr. Bob
Blunkett, rh Mr. David
Blunt, Mr. Crispin
Bone, Mr. Peter
Borrow, Mr. David S.
Boswell, Mr. Tim
Bradshaw, Mr. Ben
Brady, Mr. Graham
Brazier, Mr. Julian
Brennan, Kevin
Brokenshire, James
Brown, rh Mr. Gordon
Brown, rh Mr. Nicholas
Brown, Mr. Russell
Browne, rh Des
Browning, Angela
Bryant, Chris
Burnham, Andy
Burns, Mr. Simon
Burrowes, Mr. David
Burt, Alistair
Butterfill, Sir John
Byers, rh Mr. Stephen
Byrne, Mr. Liam
Caborn, rh Mr. Richard
Cairns, David
Cameron, rh Mr. David
Campbell, Mr. Alan
Campbell, Mr. Gregory
Carswell, Mr. Douglas
Cash, Mr. William
Cawsey, Mr. Ian
Chapman, Ben
Chope, Mr. Christopher
Clappison, Mr. James
Clark, Greg
Clark, Paul
Clarke, rh Mr. Kenneth
Clarke, rh Mr. Tom
Clelland, Mr. David
Clifton-Brown, Mr. Geoffrey
Coaker, Mr. Vernon
Coffey, Ann
Cooper, Rosie
Cooper, Yvette
Cormack, Sir Patrick
Cox, Mr. Geoffrey
Crabb, Mr. Stephen
Crausby, Mr. David
Creagh, Mary
Cunningham, Mr. Jim
Cunningham, Tony
Curtis-Thomas, Mrs. Claire
Darling, rh Mr. Alistair
David, Mr. Wayne
Davies, David T.C.
(Monmouth)
Davies, Philip
Denham, rh Mr. John
Dhanda, Mr. Parmjit
Djanogly, Mr. Jonathan
Donaldson, Mr. Jeffrey M.
Donohoe, Mr. Brian H.
Dorrell, rh Mr. Stephen
Dorries, Mrs. Nadine
Dowd, Jim
Duddridge, James
Duncan, Alan
Duncan Smith, rh Mr. Iain
Eagle, Angela
Eagle, Maria
Ellman, Mrs. Louise
Ellwood, Mr. Tobias
Engel, Natascha
Ennis, Jeff
Evans, Mr. Nigel
Evennett, Mr. David
Fabricant, Michael
Fallon, Mr. Michael
Farrelly, Paul
Field, rh Mr. Frank
Fitzpatrick, Jim
Flello, Mr. Robert
Flint, Caroline
Follett, Barbara
Foster, Mr. Michael
(Worcester)
Fox, Dr. Liam
Francis, Dr. Hywel
Francois, Mr. Mark
Fraser, Mr. Christopher
Gale, Mr. Roger
Gapes, Mike
Gardiner, Barry
Garnier, Mr. Edward
Gauke, Mr. David
George, rh Mr. Bruce
Gibb, Mr. Nick
Gillan, Mrs. Cheryl
Gilroy, Linda
Goggins, Paul
Goodman, Helen
Goodman, Mr. Paul
Goodwill, Mr. Robert
Gove, Michael
Gray, Mr. James
Grayling, Chris
Green, Damian
Greening, Justine
Greenway, Mr. John
Grieve, Mr. Dominic
Gummer, rh Mr. John
Gwynne, Andrew
Hague, rh Mr. William
Hain, rh Mr. Peter
Hall, Mr. Mike
Hammond, Stephen
Hands, Mr. Greg
Hanson, rh Mr. David
Harman, rh Ms Harriet
Harper, Mr. Mark
Harris, Mr. Tom
Hayes, Mr. John
Heald, Mr. Oliver
Healey, John
Heathcoat-Amory, rh Mr. David
Henderson, Mr. Doug
Hendrick, Mr. Mark
Hepburn, Mr. Stephen
Heppell, Mr. John
Herbert, Nick
Hesford, Stephen
Hewitt, rh Ms Patricia
Hill, rh Keith
Hillier, Meg
Hoban, Mr. Mark
Hodge, rh Margaret
Hodgson, Mrs. Sharon
Hollobone, Mr. Philip
Holloway, Mr. Adam
Hoon, rh Mr. Geoffrey
Hope, Phil
Horam, Mr. John
Howard, rh Mr. Michael
Howarth, rh Mr. George
Howarth, Mr. Gerald
Howells, Dr. Kim
Hoyle, Mr. Lindsay
Hughes, rh Beverley
Humble, Mrs. Joan
Hunt, Mr. Jeremy
Hurd, Mr. Nick
Hutton, rh Mr. John
Iddon, Dr. Brian
Illsley, Mr. Eric
Ingram, rh Mr. Adam
Irranca-Davies, Huw
Jack, rh Mr. Michael
Jackson, Mr. Stewart
Jenkin, Mr. Bernard
Jenkins, Mr. Brian
Johnson, rh Alan
Johnson, Mr. Boris
Johnson, Ms Diana R.
Jones, Mr. David
Jones, Helen
Jones, Mr. Kevan
Jones, Mr. Martyn
Jowell, rh Tessa
Joyce, Mr. Eric
Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald
Kawczynski, Daniel
Keeble, Ms Sally
Keeley, Barbara
Keen, Alan
Keen, Ann
Kelly, rh Ruth
Kemp, Mr. Fraser
Kennedy, rh Jane
Key, Robert
Khabra, Mr. Piara S.
Khan, Mr. Sadiq
Kidney, Mr. David
Kirkbride, Miss Julie
Knight, Jim
Kumar, Dr. Ashok
Ladyman, Dr. Stephen
Laing, Mrs. Eleanor
Lait, Mrs. Jacqui
Lammy, Mr. David
Lancaster, Mr. Mark
Lansley, Mr. Andrew
Laxton, Mr. Bob
Leigh, Mr. Edward
Letwin, rh Mr. Oliver
Levitt, Tom
Lewis, Mr. Ivan
Lewis, Dr. Julian
Lidington, Mr. David
Lilley, rh Mr. Peter
Linton, Martin
Loughton, Tim
Love, Mr. Andrew
Lucas, Ian
Luff, Peter
MacDougall, Mr. John
Mackay, rh Mr. Andrew
Maclean, rh David
Mahmood, Mr. Khalid
Main, Anne
Malik, Mr. Shahid
Malins, Mr. Humfrey
Mann, John
Maples, Mr. John
Marris, Rob
Martlew, Mr. Eric
Mates, rh Mr. Michael
Maude, rh Mr. Francis
May, rh Mrs. Theresa
McAvoy, rh Mr. Thomas
McCabe, Steve
McCarthy, Kerry
McCarthy-Fry, Sarah
McCartney, rh Mr. Ian
McCrea, Dr. William
McDonagh, Siobhain
McFadden, Mr. Pat
McFall, rh John
McGuire, Mrs. Anne
McIntosh, Miss Anne
McIsaac, Shona
McKenna, Rosemary
McLoughlin, rh Mr. Patrick
McNulty, Mr. Tony
Mercer, Patrick
Merron, Gillian
Michael, rh Alun
Milburn, rh Mr. Alan
Miliband, rh David
Miliband, Edward
Miller, Andrew
Miller, Mrs. Maria
Milton, Anne
Mitchell, Mr. Andrew
Moffat, Anne
Moffatt, Laura
Mole, Chris
Moon, Mrs. Madeleine
Morley, rh Mr. Elliot
Moss, Mr. Malcolm
Mountford, Kali
Munn, Meg
Murphy, Mr. Jim
Murphy, rh Mr. Paul
Murrison, Dr. Andrew
Neill, Robert
Newmark, Mr. Brooks
Norris, Dan
O'Brien, Mr. Mike
O'Brien, Mr. Stephen
O'Hara, Mr. Edward
Olner, Mr. Bill
Osborne, Mr. George
Ottaway, Richard
Owen, Albert
Paice, Mr. James
Palmer, Dr. Nick
Paterson, Mr. Owen
Pearson, Ian
Pelling, Mr. Andrew
Penrose, John
Pickles, Mr. Eric
Plaskitt, Mr. James
Pope, Mr. Greg
Prentice, Bridget
Prescott, rh Mr. John
Primarolo, rh Dawn
Prisk, Mr. Mark
Pritchard, Mark
Purnell, James
Rammell, Bill
Randall, Mr. John
Raynsford, rh Mr. Nick
Redwood, rh Mr. John
Reed, Mr. Jamie
Reid, rh John
Rifkind, rh Sir Malcolm
Robathan, Mr. Andrew
Robertson, Hugh
Robertson, John
Robertson, Mr. Laurence
Robinson, Mr. Geoffrey
Robinson, Mr. Peter
Rooney, Mr. Terry
Rosindell, Andrew
Roy, Mr. Frank
Ruffley, Mr. David
Russell, Christine
Ryan, Joan
Salter, Martin
Scott, Mr. Lee
Seabeck, Alison
Selous, Andrew
Shapps, Grant
Sheerman, Mr. Barry
Shepherd, Mr. Richard
Sheridan, Jim
Simmonds, Mark
Simon, Mr. Siôn
Simpson, David
Simpson, Mr. Keith
Slaughter, Mr. Andrew
Smith, Ms Angela C.
(Sheffield, Hillsborough)
Smith, Angela E.
(Basildon)
Smith, rh Jacqui
Smith, John
Snelgrove, Anne
Soames, Mr. Nicholas
Southworth, Helen
Spellar, rh Mr. John
Spelman, Mrs. Caroline
Spicer, Sir Michael
Spring, Mr. Richard
Stanley, rh Sir John
Starkey, Dr. Phyllis
Stoate, Dr. Howard
Straw, rh Mr. Jack
Stuart, Ms Gisela
Stuart, Mr. Graham
Sutcliffe, Mr. Gerry
Swayne, Mr. Desmond
Swire, Mr. Hugo
Syms, Mr. Robert
Tami, Mark
Tapsell, Sir Peter
Taylor, Ms Dari
Thomas, Mr. Gareth
Timms, rh Mr. Stephen
Tipping, Paddy
Touhig, rh Mr. Don
Tredinnick, David
Turner, Mr. Neil
Twigg, Derek
Tyrie, Mr. Andrew
Ussher, Kitty
Vaizey, Mr. Edward
Vara, Mr. Shailesh
Vaz, rh Keith
Villiers, Mrs. Theresa
Walker, Mr. Charles
Wallace, Mr. Ben
Walter, Mr. Robert
Waltho, Lynda
Waterson, Mr. Nigel
Watkinson, Angela
Watson, Mr. Tom
Watts, Mr. Dave
Whittingdale, Mr. John
Wicks, Malcolm
Widdecombe, rh Miss Ann
Wiggin, Bill
Willetts, Mr. David
Williams, rh Mr. Alan
Wills, Mr. Michael
Wilshire, Mr. David
Winterton, Ann
Winterton, Sir Nicholas
Winterton, rh Ms Rosie
Woodward, Mr. Shaun
Woolas, Mr. Phil
Wright, David
Wright, Mr. Iain
Wright, Jeremy
Wright, Dr. Tony
Wyatt, Derek
Young, rh Sir George
Tellers for the Ayes:
Jonathan Shaw and
Claire Ward
NOES
Abbott, Ms Diane
Alexander, Danny
Austin, John
Baker, Norman
Barrett, John
Begg, Miss Anne
Beith, rh Mr. Alan
Benton, Mr. Joe
Berry, Roger
Breed, Mr. Colin
Browne, Mr. Jeremy
Bruce, rh Malcolm
Burden, Richard
Burgon, Colin
Burstow, Mr. Paul
Burt, Lorely
Butler, Ms Dawn
Cable, Dr. Vincent
Campbell, rh Sir Menzies
Campbell, Mr. Ronnie
Carmichael, Mr. Alistair
Caton, Mr. Martin
Challen, Colin
Chaytor, Mr. David
Clark, Ms Katy
Clegg, Mr. Nick
Cohen, Harry
Connarty, Michael
Cook, Frank
Corbyn, Jeremy
Cousins, Jim
Cruddas, Jon
Cryer, Mrs. Ann
Davey, Mr. Edward
Davidson, Mr. Ian
Davies, Mr. Dai
Devine, Mr. Jim
Dobbin, Jim
Dobson, rh Frank
Doran, Mr. Frank
Drew, Mr. David
Durkan, Mark
Ennis, Jeff
Etherington, Bill
Farron, Tim
Featherstone, Lynne
Fisher, Mark
Flynn, Paul
Foster, Mr. Don
Foster, Michael Jabez
(Hastings and Rye)
Galloway, Mr. George
George, Andrew
Gerrard, Mr. Neil
Gibson, Dr. Ian
Godsiff, Mr. Roger
Goldsworthy, Julia
Griffith, Nia
Griffiths, Nigel
Grogan, Mr. John
Hall, Patrick
Hamilton, Mr. David
Hamilton, Mr. Fabian
Hancock, Mr. Mike
Harris, Dr. Evan
Harvey, Nick
Havard, Mr. Dai
Heath, Mr. David
Hemming, John
Hermon, Lady
Heyes, David
Hoey, Kate
Holmes, Paul
Hopkins, Kelvin
Horwood, Martin
Hosie, Stewart
Howarth, David
Hughes, Simon
Huhne, Chris
Hunter, Mark
Jackson, Glenda
James, Mrs. Siân C.
Jones, Lynne
Keetch, Mr. Paul
Kennedy, rh Mr. Charles
Kilfoyle, Mr. Peter
Kramer, Susan
Laws, Mr. David
Lazarowicz, Mark
Leech, Mr. John
Lepper, David
Lloyd, Tony
Llwyd, Mr. Elfyn
Mackinlay, Andrew
MacNeil, Mr. Angus
Marshall, Mr. David
McCafferty, Chris
McDonnell, John
McGovern, Mr. Jim
McGrady, Mr. Eddie
McKechin, Ann
Meacher, rh Mr. Michael
Meale, Mr. Alan
Moore, Mr. Michael
Morgan, Julie
Mulholland, Greg
Mullin, Mr. Chris
Naysmith, Dr. Doug
Öpik, Lembit
Osborne, Sandra
Pound, Stephen
Prentice, Mr. Gordon
Price, Adam
Prosser, Gwyn
Pugh, Dr. John
Purchase, Mr. Ken
Reid, Mr. Alan
Rennie, Willie
Riordan, Mrs. Linda
Robertson, Angus
Rowen, Paul
Ruddock, Joan
Russell, Bob
Salmond, Mr. Alex
Sarwar, Mr. Mohammad
Short, rh Clare
Simpson, Alan
Singh, Mr. Marsha
Skinner, Mr. Dennis
Smith, rh Mr. Andrew
Smith, Sir Robert
Soulsby, Sir Peter
Stewart, Ian
Strang, rh Dr. Gavin
Stringer, Graham
Stunell, Andrew
Swinson, Jo
Taylor, Matthew
Taylor, Dr. Richard
Teather, Sarah
Thornberry, Emily
Thurso, John
Trickett, Jon
Truswell, Mr. Paul
Turner, Dr. Desmond
Vis, Dr. Rudi
Walley, Joan
Wareing, Mr. Robert N.
Webb, Steve
Weir, Mr. Mike
Williams, Mrs. Betty
Williams, Hywel
Williams, Mark
Williams, Mr. Roger
Williams, Stephen
Willis, Mr. Phil
Willott, Jenny
Winnick, Mr. David
Wishart, Pete
Wood, Mike
Wright, Mr. Anthony
Younger-Ross, Richard
Tellers for the Noes:
Mr. Dan Rogerson and
David Taylor
Question accordingly agreed to.
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14 Mar 2007 : Column 407
Resolved,
That this House supports the Governments decisions, as set out in the White Paper The Future of the United Kingdoms Nuclear Deterrent (Cm 6994), to take the steps necessary to maintain the UKs minimum strategic nuclear deterrent beyond the life of the existing system and to take further steps towards meeting the UKs disarmament responsibilities under Article VI of the Non-Proliferation Treaty.
petition
Young Workers
7.31 pm
John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab)
rose[ Interruption. ]
Mr. Speaker:
Order. Will hon. Members leave the Chamber quietly?
John McDonnell:
I wish to present a petition collected by young members of the Public and Commercial Services Union who work for the civil service. The petitioners strongly object to the discrimination on the ground of age against young workers under 22 that currently exists in the United Kingdom. They receive less pay per hour for exactly the same work as their co-workers simply because of their age. Young people pay the same for basic expenses such as food, utilities and rent as other workers, and they do not work more slowly or less competently simply because of their age. Ability to do a job comes from experience and training, not from growing older. Age-related wages can effectively price older workers out of the market, but young workers on modern apprenticeship schemes often have no minimum wage protection whatsoever. The petition states:
The petitioners therefore...urge the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry to raise the rate of the National Minimum Wage for young workers to that for workers aged 22 and over.
To lie upon the Table.
14 Mar 2007 : Column 408
English Language Teaching
Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House do now adjourn. [Mr. Roy.]
7.33 pm
Mr. Andrew Pelling (Croydon, Central) (Con):
I am grateful to the Speaker for allowing this debate to take place this evening. I am sure that the Minister for Higher Education and Lifelong Learning and, indeed, providers of English for speakers of other languages will be pleased that the debate stems from the problems of success and the demand for ESOL provision.
This debate is an important one. I am happy to plagiarise others ideas, and I was speaking a moment ago to my hon. Friend the Member for Windsor (Adam Afriyie), who pointed out that our influence as a nation derives from the English language itself. The strength of the City of London, too, is very much based on the strengths created by the teaching of English.
The debate is important for me as the Member of Parliament for Croydon, Central, with the immigration and nationality directorate in the town, and with 1,500 ESOL learners who secure their instruction from ESOL provision in Croydon, which passed its inspection and has been cited for good practice by the National Research and Development Centre. ESOL provides for good social inclusion, the promotion of economic efficiency, and the buttressing of community cohesion.
The debate is important also in the context of migration, where the Governments ambitions seem a little confused. Clearly, there is a strong benefit from the dynamic economy that is boosted by migration. A Minister at the Department for Education and Skills has emphasised the value of learning English for recent migrants to this country. However, that comes at a time when the brakes are being slammed on the ESOL budget. Perhaps that confusion is more eloquently expressed in an answer that I received from Mayor Livingstone to a question that I posed to him at the London assembly. He said:
On the one hand I am being asked by the Home Office to lead work on refugee integration by London, and on the other the DfES is pricing people out of ESOL provision, one of the keys to integration.
The Mayor went on to say:
On the ESOL decision, I do not think the Government fully thought through the implications. To remove fee remission from those working in low paid employment or from family members who may not themselves be direct benefit recipients is a backward step.
The issue is important to the resident community as well. I was walking past one of the great construction sites in London, and of course I could hear Polish being spoken. My concern is for those working on site who do not speak Polish. When the warning comes that some piece of equipment is falling off the top of the building on to one of the workers, it would be helpful if English was the main language spoken on the site.
Mr. Sadiq Khan (Tooting) (Lab):
I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on securing the debate, which has a direct impact on many of the parliamentarians who are present and on their constituents. He mentions the Polish workers on a building site. Does he agree that there is a distinction to be made between people who come to this country and need to learn the language, for
14 Mar 2007 : Column 409
whom there is nobody to provide the funding for that, and a worker whose employer should be subsidising, if not paying for, that person to learn English? The hon. Gentleman mentioned refugees. I draw attention to the females who may have been in the country for many years but still cannot speak the language.
Mr. Pelling:
The hon. Gentleman highlights some important issues, especially the need to reach out to those in a family environment, who may get very little exposure to the English language. Although I understand the philosophy of trying to get employers involved in paying for provision, the nature of many ESOL clients suggests that employers will not feel confident that they will get a return from that investment.
Mr. Marsha Singh (Bradford, West) (Lab):
I echo the comments of my hon. Friend the Member for Tooting (Mr. Khan) about the importance of the debate. I represent a constituency where ESOL is a necessity, not a luxury. At a time when we need to promote social cohesion, and we want people to speak English well so that they can get jobs and integrate into the society, are not the cuts a backward step for that desire and aspiration? It does not seem like joined-up thinking. It seems like very disjointed thinking.
Mr. Pelling:
I am extremely grateful for that intervention, which emphasises how fundamental this provision is in the hon. Gentlemans constituency. It seems counterintuitive for the Government to have gone down this route.
We are fortunate in having here this evening the Minister for Higher Education and Lifelong Learning, who has listened and proposed concessions. This is a good opportunity for us to hear how those concessions will work, if they can be made to do so.
Rob Marris (Wolverhampton, South-West) (Lab):
One of the concessions made by the Minister relates to prioritising funding for spouses and individuals who do not have access to their household benefit documentation or their own funds. Does the hon. Gentleman share my concern that the Learning and Skills Councils learner hardship support fund, from which support for such spouses and individuals would come, might be swamped by applications from people who, in many cases, will have been resident in the United Kingdom for most of their lives?
Mr. Pelling:
I am grateful for that pertinent intervention.