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Let me make one final point about the difficulties that we face in this country. The other day, I read a fascinating article by a reporter in The Sunday Times which compared homes for offending children in London and in Hamburg. It said that children in the Hamburg home typically spent an average of three years there, so the staff had a chance to turn round their behaviour. There was much less time to do that in the London home, because children spent an average of only one year there. Moreover, the approach in Hamburg was
noticeably more relaxed. For example, the reporter was amazed to find that some of the children got a massage before lights-out in the evening. [ Interruption . ] I do not want to hear any sniggers from the Labour Benches. The kids enjoyed that; it was part of the daily routine. When that was put to a member of staff at the London home, they said:
“There are all sorts of...issues involved...We wouldn’t chance it. In everything we do, we work according to strict protocols.”
“two ring folders bulging with statutory regulations and policies.”
“Many senior managers in this field are more interested in reports, statistics and numbers than the individual needs of the children we look after.”
That is the truth of the matter.
The Hamburg home got startlingly better results by dealing with the children in a much more relaxed, normal and human way than did the rules-bound London home. That is precisely the sort of point that my right hon. Friend the Leader of the Opposition makes from time to time. We are missing the point by spending the same amounts of money on getting very poor results because we are not treating people like human beings. This is a fundamental issue. We need to look at policing as a whole, in terms not only of the resources going in but how they are managed and handled in the course of doing the job.
3.29 pm
Ms Dawn Butler (Brent, South) (Lab): All hon. Members agree that the way in which London is policed has a major impact on the lives of all who live and work in the capital, and all who visit it. Effective policing, especially at neighbourhood level, can not only help reduce crime and the fear of crime, but enhance community relations and cohesion.
I want to consider the way in which real policies make a genuine difference to people’s everyday lives. Mark Tolland, Brent’s borough commander, called me in for a debrief on a raid that happened two weeks ago, when Brent police, Brent safer neighbourhoods team and, more important, the Brent community, stood up to drug dealers on the South Kilburn estate and ensured a successful exercise, which resulted in the arrest and conviction of key criminals.
The hon. Member for Richmond Park (Susan Kramer) spoke about lifting Lib Dem policies. A policy that was not lifted from the Lib Dem manifesto was that of ending the use of imprisonment as a punishment for possession of own-use illegal drugs of any class. I want to stress to the Mayor of London and my party that we must continue in the direction in which we are travelling because it is the right direction, and not adopt any such Lib Dem policies.
Last week, I was out with my safer neighbourhoods teams on the St. Raph’s estate. We saw the difference that the teams were making to the community and the trust that was beginning to be built there. Statistics show a significant decrease in crime in my constituency. Total crime was down last year. Violent offences, robbery, burglary, gun crime, domestic crime, racist
crime and homophobic crime were all down in my constituency. That is because of the extra investment that the Mayor of London and the Government have made in the police and public services. Total crime in Brent fell by more than 12 per cent. That is better than in the rest of London, where crime fell by 6 per cent. The reduction is also due to the work that has been done in the community.
Although I hope that we will reach the position whereby there are no murders in Brent, murders in the past year reduced by half, from 10 to only four. Gun crime fell by almost a quarter from 208 instances to 162. The hon. Member for Arundel and South Downs (Nick Herbert) asked whether our policies worked. The Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006 has worked in Brent and we are experiencing the effect of the changes through the fall in the crime figures.
Safer neighbourhoods teams were launched in my constituency on the Stonebridge estate. Nothing demonstrates better the changes in London than the effect of the safer neighbourhoods teams. A few months ago, the Opposition made some big headlines with demands for more bobbies on the beat. Safer neighbourhoods teams are the bobbies on the beat by a different name. The full roll-out across London was completed ahead of schedule in April 2006, with all the teams at the minimum 1-2-3 model by the end of December. That has had a borough-wide effect in Brent. In Dudden hill, which I visited the other day, a lady told me that she could feel the difference.
I hope that the hon. Member for North Southwark and Bermondsey (Simon Hughes), who made some pertinent points in condemning people who put out leaflets and information that sensationalise crime in the area and make people feel less safe, will condemn the leaflets that are being distributed in Dudden hill. They undermine the good work of our safer neighbourhoods teams.
Simon Hughes: If the hon. Lady lets me see the leaflets, I will give her an honest view. However, for a year before the last elections in Southwark, we had Labour leaflet after Labour leaflet that made people feel that the world was about to end and that they would be mugged and raped if they stepped outside their door. That added to the fear of crime. All those leaflets were put out by the Labour party, when crime figures generally had decreased in Southwark, as they had in the rest of London, simply because the council was Liberal Democrat run.
Ms Butler: All I can say is that the Liberal Democrats are putting out the information in my constituency. In fact, the Liberal Democrats are now being called the “Fib Dems” because of the amount of lies that are being cascaded around the area. They always try to feed this fear of crime unnecessarily. The safer neighbourhoods teams spend 75 per cent. of their working hours doing visible community policing, and between April 2006 and February 2007, they carried out more than 17,200 arrests.
We heard the hon. Member for Arundel and South Downs asking earlier whether what has been achieved is anything to be proud of. Well, let me tell him some of the things that we should be proud of. As I said, more than 380 crack houses were closed and we are proud of
that. More than 750 antisocial behaviour orders were issued, and we are proud of that. We carried out 4,900 prolific persistent offender interventions, and we are also proud of that. We issued more than 3,300 penalty notices and visited more than 36,200 crime victims—and more. All that has resulted in a 6 per cent. overall drop in crime in the London area.
Justine Greening: Does the hon. Lady have any views on how much crime has fallen as a result of the downgrading of the classification of cannabis?
Ms Butler: The hon. Lady makes a point about cannabis, but where crime has fallen, it is not just in relation to drugs. It relates to all forms of crime. As regards cannabis, most of the police and the safer neighbourhood teams still take it very seriously. We do not have a Lib Dem policy of not arresting people or not putting them away for illegal use of drugs. That is not what has had an effect. What has had a real effect—and I think it is really important to acknowledge it—are the safer neighbourhoods teams. There is still further to go, but those teams are having a profound effect in ensuring that crime and the fear of crime is reduced. The hon. Member Lady should acknowledge that in some of her interventions.
I would like to conclude by talking about some of the key achievements in my Brent constituency. We have had an early warning system for retailers, who have invested in an alert box. More than 100 of them have been purchased and they are working very well. Many of my hon. Friends have talked about the importance of early interventions with young people, and we have set up a Brent partnership unit, working together with the rugby football union and Kingsbury school sports partnership, to deliver coaching sessions as well as crime prevention messages in many schools, including Preston Park, Fryent and Kingsbury Green primary schools.
We had a particular problem in the constituency with knife and gun crime, so the community has worked hard with the police to tackle it. Not Another Drop was launched in 2001 and has been extremely successful in getting the message across. A march takes place and is growing bigger every year. There is also the Don’t Trigger campaign, which is organising a march from Ealing hospital to Acton park on 12 May. It deals with all forms of violent crime and how to work together to stop it.
There are some very good people in Brent. For example, there is Raj Kohli, the chief inspector involved in the partnership, who works to build up good relationships within the community. Then there is Patsy Hopkins who, along with other mothers, has lost a young child to violent crime, and speaks passionately to young people about how to combat crime and work towards safer streets and a safer society. Bethan West has done a lot of work with Not Another Drop and is now moving on to other things: she has done some incredible work in the constituency.
The Labour Government have been relentless in their funding of the police over the past 10 years and have adopted policies to ensure that Britain is kept safe. Maria Arpa was awarded £750,000 by the Chancellor to run a mediation project with the police, involving people who have committed crimes. It will have a
powerful effect on crime reduction in all areas. The Government have invested more than ever before in new services and new facilities. For example, they invested in the youth opportunities fund and the youth capital fund, which my hon. Friend the Member for Ealing, Acton and Shepherd's Bush (Mr. Slaughter) spoke about. They mean that young people have activities to do after school. In a debate on crime in London, it is important to recognise that 10 years of Labour investment has helped Britain become a safer place.
3.40 pm
Mr. David Evennett (Bexleyheath and Crayford) (Con): It is a pleasure to be able to participate in the debate. As I said in an earlier intervention on the Minister, it is good that we are having a debate on policing in London, and I only hope that we can have more regular debates on London, perhaps on an annual basis, to discuss all the issues affecting it—good and bad.
So far, this has been a high calibre debate, and one thing that has emerged from it is that it is also our job to highlight the good things. Indeed, the hon. Member for North Southwark and Bermondsey (Simon Hughes) said that we should not always talk about the bad things, and that we should go on about the good things as well. We will have the opportunity to do that if we hold general debates about London issues, and I urge the Minister to put pressure on the Leader of the House to arrange for us to have regular debates on London every year, as we used to do. If those debates are of as high a quality as this one, we will be able to get across the message about the good things that are happening in London—in policing or whatever else—as well as all the other issues that must be discussed.
I listened to the Minister with great interest and I agreed with many of his points. There has been an increase in resources and in police numbers, both of which are to be warmly welcomed. There has also been an increase in the number of police community support officers—they are doing a very good job—and recorded crime is down. But a problem in my area—and in other areas of London where friends and relatives live—is that, regrettably, people do not believe the figures. The general public think that the figures are manipulated, with the result that, even where it is obvious that things have improved, they do not believe it because they do not feel it. Their quality of life has not been enhanced because they do not feel it, and because they hear stories about crime. I shall talk in a moment about the press, which the hon. Member for North Southwark and Bermondsey also mentioned.
People matter, and we must not forget that we are talking about people today, not figures. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Arundel and South Downs (Nick Herbert) on his excellent speech, in which he put forward many arguments and some statistics—not too many—and highlighted the value-for-money issue, which my constituents are very concerned about.
There have been falls in some serious crime, and we applaud that. We applaud the Government, the police, who have done such tremendous work, the councils and the local community groups. All have played a part
in the reduction of serious crime. However, we have not heard so much today about the other side of the argument. Certain problems have got worse, including antisocial behaviour, binge drinking, drug crime, problems on public transport, vandalism, graffiti, and the fear of crime. Those are the real issues that my constituents and others across London are concerned about. Serious crime levels may have reduced, but the lower-grade crime that impinges on people’s quality of life has not gone down. In many ways, it has increased the pressures on constituents and families, to the detriment of their quality of life.
Justine Greening: One thing that always strikes me about statistics is that people do not just get 1 per cent. mugged; they get 100 per cent. mugged. We are constantly being given the probability of being the victim of a particular crime, but such statistics are not helpful when people actually experience crime. They experience it either at zero or 100 per cent.
Mr. Evennett: My hon. Friend makes a good point, and I am sure that she will elaborate on it if she catches your eye later, Madam Deputy Speaker.
I have to be honest: I was rather sceptical about police community support officers when they were first introduced. Indeed, I took the matter up with my borough commander. However, I have to say that I have been converted and convinced. The PCSOs are doing a brilliant job as part of the teams, and the work that they are putting in is very good. My hon. Friend the Member for Arundel and South Downs mentioned their importance, and suggested how they could be developed further, which is something that we should be looking at. I am just a little concerned that London might not be getting the numbers of PCSOs that we originally hoped for. I understand that the planned increase in numbers has been cut—I know that the Minister will tell me that it is still increasing, as he always does in his good-humoured way. PCSOs are the eyes and ears of the police—they provide a reassuring presence and report back—and they do a marvellous job. If the increase in numbers is not as we hoped, however, that will be a disadvantage.
My hon. Friend the Member for Orpington (Mr. Horam) highlighted superbly how outer-London boroughs are often disadvantaged compared with some inner-London boroughs. Resource is always an issue.
My borough of Bexley has seen great improvements. Our new borough commander is doing a tremendous job and working with the new council—I do not want to get party political, but it is a new Conservative council—elected in May 2006. To be fair, it is building on the work of the previous, Labour, council. The police, council and community groups are working extremely well together on the community safety programme, which is having a positive effective on Bexley. I commend all who are involved in it.
Our local free sheets, the News Shopper and the Kent Messenger Group’s Bexley Extra, have been fair in highlighting the improved crime figures, although that reduction is, of course, in recorded crime. None the less, they are presenting a balanced picture, and the press are too often criticised for only covering bad
things, and putting tragedies on the front page. Last week, however, one of the front pages said that Bexley is a great place to live. Crime is lower, and other good things were also highlighted—perhaps its two Members of Parliaments, I do not know—to show why it was a good place to live.
I also pay tribute to the roll-out of the safer neighbourhood teams, which has been completed in all 21 wards in Bexley. All have at least six dedicated officers, and two of mine have more than that. Christchurch ward, in Bexleyheath town centre, has 10 officers, because particular issues there require extra support. Obviously, I pay tribute to the team in Barnehurst ward, where I live, as they have made a tremendous difference by being out and about.
There was a time when people said that they never saw the police. Now they see the police on a regular basis, and on foot. I have raised the issue with the borough commander, and of course police must have the mobility provided by cars when they have a large ward to cover. But nothing reassures the public more than to see, as the hon. Member for Brent, South (Ms Butler) said, bobbies on the beat. The term is old-fashioned, but seeing police walking around still provides a sense of security, which is positive. Of course, we need technology and improved mobility to deal with incidents, but seeing police walking around is reassuring. If we are to overcome the fear of crime, which, apart from localised antisocial behaviour and other matters that I have raised previously, is the biggest issue, the police must be seen walking on the streets.
Partnerships are also relevant. Money is not the only issue, although it is important, and we are concerned that the Home Office budget will not increase as it has done previously, and that that may have consequences for policing in London. That is a debate for a different day.
The other issue that I want to highlight is the fear of groups of young people on public transport, perhaps at the end of school time, when pensioners are also around. Sir Ian Blair and the Mayor came down to launch the scheme for police community support officers to travel on buses. There is a great fear of crime on public transport. I have visited a number of secondary schools in my constituency to talk to sixth forms, and have been surprised to learn that a good many sixth-formers are also frightened of crime on public transport. I have the privilege of being a governor at Townley grammar school for girls, and those girls are very worried about going home on mainline trains.
Mr. Khan: The hon. Gentleman has raised a point that is of real concern to my constituents. Is there not a double whammy, in that young people are not only more likely to be stereotyped and demonised by the media and, dare I say it, politicians, but more likely to be victims of crime?
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