Previous Section Index Home Page

13 Jun 2007 : Column 329WH—continued

For as long as I have held a women and equalities portfolio, I have sought assurances that the Government will address the issue of transgender people, but despite
13 Jun 2007 : Column 330WH
that, in the equalities law review and indeed in all legislation relating to fair treatment in respect of sexual orientation, there remains absolutely no protection for transgender people unless they have had or are seeking gender reassignment surgery. The vast majority who do not want surgery—people such as transvestites and cross-dressers—will not be covered. Will the Minister please talk to his colleagues about that grave omission? Those people are not huge in number, but they are suffering and the Government are not listening.

With all the groups that I have discussed today, there is a huge pool of talent, skill, dedication and loyalty there for the asking. It makes huge economic sense for any employer to go fishing in that pool. Will the Government encourage and cajole employers to take the plunge, for the sake of their own profits, the economic prosperity of this country and fairness itself?

4.46 pm

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Trade and Industry (Jim Fitzpatrick): It is a pleasure to see you in the Chair again, Mr. Caton. It is only five and a half hours since I last saw you there, so I hope that you managed to have a break in the meantime.

I congratulate the hon. Member for Solihull (Lorely Burt) on securing this very useful debate. I am grateful that she gave notice of some of the issues that she intended to raise. We can all agree that there is no place for discrimination in a modern, tolerant society, and there is much of which we can be proud. The UK has some of the most comprehensive anti-discrimination legislation in Europe and human rights are enshrined in statute. The Government have extended anti-discrimination law—as well as protecting people from discrimination because of their sex, race or disability, we have ensured that it is now also unlawful to discriminate in the workplace on the grounds of gender reassignment, sexual orientation, religion or belief, or age. Those regulations were intended, among other things, to help to tackle bullying and harassment in the workplace.

Evidence from the implementation of the regulations shows that anti-discrimination laws can be a powerful tool for tackling prejudice and bullying. People are making use of the regulations to enforce their rights through employment tribunals. The Government have also extended regulations to outlaw discrimination in the provision of goods and services on the grounds of sexual orientation and religion or belief.

Yesterday, as the hon. Lady mentioned, we published our consultation document on the discrimination law review to help to ensure that we have a framework of anti-discrimination law that is fit for purpose for the 21st century. We want to simplify and clarify the law. Clearer law in a single equality Act will help to prevent discrimination in the first place, because everyone will know where they stand. If people are discriminated against, they will know what their rights are. The single equality Act will put the law on equality and discrimination in one place, supported by clear and practical guidance. We want to hear people’s views on the many issues that we need to consider for such a comprehensive statute. We want to see whether there are gaps in protection that need to be filled. The consultation will also consider whether, and how,
13 Jun 2007 : Column 331WH
statutory protection against harassment on the ground of sexual orientation should be provided outside the workplace. Even though we have a lot to be proud of, there is still a long way to go. It is not enough just to have laws on the statute book, because they must be accompanied by a change in attitude.

I want to deal with the specific issue of Pakistani, Bangladeshi and Afro-Caribbean women and work.

John Penrose: Before the Minister moves on to the specific issues of women and ethnic minorities, I would like to ask him something. He mentioned age discrimination. I believe that the Government recently said that they were reluctant to extend the protection from age discrimination to people who are older than 65 and that they will not be re-examining the issue until 2011. Given that he has mentioned that the Government are seeking comments on equality and anti-discrimination law, will they be considering comments on age discrimination in respect of over-65s before 2011?

Jim Fitzpatrick: The age discrimination regulations are relatively new and we are monitoring them carefully. The hon. Gentleman, should he wish to do so, will obviously have the opportunity to make a contribution to the equality consultation that is about to start—we are certainly interested in application and experience.

The Equal Opportunities Commission’s report “Moving on up?” showed a contrasting picture. It contains stories about women who have broken down barriers and overcome the preconceptions to become very successful in their chosen fields of education, business and the wider community. Young Pakistani, Bangladeshi and Black Caribbean women are increasingly well qualified and keen to work, but they find it harder than white women to get jobs and to get promoted. Bangladeshi and Pakistani women who have a degree and are seeking work are five times more likely to be unemployed than white British women with a degree. The EOC found that Pakistani women who work full-time face a large pay gap, earning £3.28 less per hour—or 28 per cent. less—than white British men working full-time

The gender and ethnic pay gap is not just bad news for women, because it means that women’s abilities and skills are not being fully utilised in business and the economy. The Government are committed to reducing the gap between men’s and women’s earnings, and tackling the obstacles that prevent people from achieving their potential. We can help by means other than anti-discrimination legislation. The EOC identified one of the main barriers as being the fact that working parents and carers find it hard to access the support that they need. I can proudly say that we have done a lot to support working families: we have created more than 1 million child care places; there are now more than 1,000 Sure Start centres across the country, providing families with support and advice; the right to request flexible working has made a huge difference, because in the five years since its introduction the number of new parents working flexibly has trebled; and we have just extended the right to request flexible working to carers of adults, giving the right to 2.65 million more employees. Our research
13 Jun 2007 : Column 332WH
shows that flexible working is becoming the norm. Almost all employees surveyed said that some form of flexible working was available.

The Government also have specific, targeted programmes to help the most disadvantaged ethnic groups to find work—for example, the science, technology, engineering and maths access grants given to increase the participation of Afro-Caribbean boys and Pakistani and Bangladeshi girls in those subjects. The programme aims to encourage those groups who are particularly under-represented in related careers. Another such scheme is the partners outreach programme, which is designed to help Pakistani and Bangladeshi women who neither work nor claim benefits.

Lorely Burt: Before the Minister leaves the flexible working arena, will he tell me whether the Government are examining the possibility of extending the right to request—I am not talking about any entitlement—flexible working from the current age provision to parents who have children aged up to 18?

Jim Fitzpatrick: I remember sitting on the Front Bench on 27 March listening to the hon. Lady’s ten-minute Bill on that subject. As I was able to tell her afterwards outside the Chamber, we are keeping the situation under review and taking this a step at a time. We believe that the approach that we have so far adopted is the right one. It is clearly seen to be working for individuals in business, and I can envisage further extensions. The time scale and the pace of the change remain open to conjecture, but the evidence so far is encouraging. We do not want to go too fast, and I believe that she knows where we are coming from.

As I was saying, diversity in the work force is not an issue for the Government to solve alone because employers must play their part, too. Equality and diversity in the workplace is about not only social justice, but competitiveness. Companies that have well thought-out and well implemented race equality policies will gain competitive advantage. Ethnic minorities now make up about 7.9 per cent. of the population—the figure was 4.6 million people in the 2001 census—and between 1999 and 2009 they will account for half the growth in the working age population. Ethnic minorities in the UK are a growing market with increasing disposable income.

For many businesses, it is essential that they understand and meet the needs of a diverse customer base. For example, HSBC and Halifax branches in London’s Chinatown employ staff who speak Chinese to help them access the small businesses around that area. Having a diverse work force is one part of the business strategy. All businesses need talented staff. If they do not recruit, retain and promote from all sections of the community, they will miss out on potential sources of talent at all levels of the company. Ensuring that employees have an equal chance to progress based on merit can lower staff turnover and the high cost of replacing skilled workers.

Some businesses are already taking that approach, and not just in the area of ethnic diversity. For example, companies such as Barclays, British Telecom, Credit Suisse, JP Morgan, IBM, Shell, Sainsbury’s and Ford proactively work with Stonewall in a scheme
13 Jun 2007 : Column 333WH
called diversity champions. They work with the sole aim of ensuring that their companies follow best practice in diversity policy in relation to their lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender staff. They believe that that is not only the right thing to do, but that it gives them a competitive edge and better knowledge of their marketplace. I am pleased to say that the Government have supported Stonewall.

In terms of behaviour in the workplace and how people interact, the law exists to protect people from discrimination. It is the employer’s responsibility to ensure fair treatment and to prevent bullying. If issues around cultural sensitivity exist, it is for the employer to resolve them. The hon. Lady mentioned the situation where a workplace has all its work meetings in a pub. Such meetings could take place in more exotic locations, although she rightly disparaged those. In such circumstances, the employer needs to examine whether the practice excludes certain sections of the work force. Such an examination is good business practice, not political correctness.

Any business that wants to be successful should not close its doors to men or women with talent, whatever their ethnic origin or religion or sexual orientation. I welcome initiatives such as the EOC’s new campaign
13 Jun 2007 : Column 334WH
“Promoting people not stereotypes”, which looks to explode myths. Advice for employers on diversity is available from sources such as ACAS, Business Link, the Commission for Racial Equality and the new Commission for Equality and Human Rights. Training on diversity is available from organisations such as ACAS. I urge all employers to use the resources available. The Government’s ethnic minority employment taskforce will be looking further at working with employers.

We have spoken about particular groups in today’s debate, but the work force is still constantly changing. I am thinking of the Jewish and Irish workers in this country over recent centuries, the Black Caribbean, Pakistani, Indian and Bangladeshi in the decades after the second world war, and the most recent arrivals from Eastern Europe. As the work force and population changes, there will be new challenges. There may be issues that we have not even anticipated yet, but we have made progress and can continue to meet any challenges that may arise.

I hope that I have dealt with the issues that the hon. Lady raised, but I shall be happy to respond further in writing, as she requested.

Question put and agreed to.

Adjourned accordingly at three minutes to Five o’clock.


    Index Home Page