| Previous Section | Index | Home Page |
The House having divided: Ayes 126, Noes 242.
AYES
Afriyie, Adam
Ainsworth, Mr. Peter
Amess, Mr. David
Arbuthnot, rh Mr. James
Barker, Gregory
Baron, Mr. John
Barrett, John
Benyon, Mr. Richard
Bercow, John
Binley, Mr. Brian
Bone, Mr. Peter
Boswell, Mr. Tim
Bottomley, Peter
Brazier, Mr. Julian
Brokenshire, James
Brooke, Annette
Browne, Mr. Jeremy
Browning, Angela
Burstow, Mr. Paul
Burt, Lorely
Butterfill, Sir John
Cable, Dr. Vincent
Carswell, Mr. Douglas
Chope, Mr. Christopher
Clappison, Mr. James
Clark, Greg
Clegg, Mr. Nick
Clifton-Brown, Mr. Geoffrey
Cormack, Sir Patrick
Cox, Mr. Geoffrey
Curry, rh Mr. David
Davey, Mr. Edward
Davies, Philip
Davis, rh David (Haltemprice and Howden)
Duddridge, James
Dunne, Mr. Philip
Ellwood, Mr. Tobias
Evans, Mr. Nigel
Evennett, Mr. David
Featherstone, Lynne
Field, Mr. Mark
Foster, Mr. Don
Francois, Mr. Mark
Gale, Mr. Roger
Gauke, Mr. David
George, Andrew
Gibb, Mr. Nick
Goodwill, Mr. Robert
Gray, Mr. James
Green, Damian
Greening, Justine
Greenway, Mr. John
Gummer, rh Mr. John
Hammond, Stephen
Harris, Dr. Evan
Harvey, Nick
Hayes, Mr. John
Heald, Mr. Oliver
Heathcoat-Amory, rh Mr. David
Hemming, John
Hendry, Charles
Herbert, Nick
Hogg, rh Mr. Douglas
Hollobone, Mr. Philip
Horam, Mr. John
Howarth, David
Hughes, Simon
Huhne, Chris
Hunt, Mr. Jeremy
Hurd, Mr. Nick
Jack, rh Mr. Michael
Jenkin, Mr. Bernard
Jones, Mr. David
Key, Robert
Kramer, Susan
Lancaster, Mr. Mark
Lansley, Mr. Andrew
Letwin, rh Mr. Oliver
Lewis, Dr. Julian
Lidington, Mr. David
Lilley, rh Mr. Peter
Luff, Peter
Malins, Mr. Humfrey
May, rh Mrs. Theresa
McIntosh, Miss Anne
McLoughlin, rh Mr. Patrick
Miller, Mrs. Maria
Milton, Anne
Moss, Mr. Malcolm
Mulholland, Greg
Murrison, Dr. Andrew
Neill, Robert
Newmark, Mr. Brooks
O'Brien, Mr. Stephen
Osborne, Mr. George
Paice, Mr. James
Pelling, Mr. Andrew
Penning, Mike
Price, Adam
Randall, Mr. John
Reid, Mr. Alan
Rifkind, rh Sir Malcolm
Robathan, Mr. Andrew
Robertson, Mr. Laurence
Ruffley, Mr. David
Scott, Mr. Lee
Shepherd, Mr. Richard
Simmonds, Mark
Simpson, Mr. Keith
Spicer, Sir Michael
Spink, Bob
Stanley, rh Sir John
Stunell, Andrew
Teather, Sarah
Tyrie, Mr. Andrew
Vara, Mr. Shailesh
Walker, Mr. Charles
Wallace, Mr. Ben
Waterson, Mr. Nigel
Wiggin, Bill
Willetts, Mr. David
Williams, Mr. Roger
Willott, Jenny
Wilson, Sammy
Wright, Jeremy
Young, rh Sir George
Tellers for the Ayes:
Angela Watkinson and
Michael Fabricant
NOES
Allen, Mr. Graham
Anderson, Mr. David
Anderson, Janet
Atkins, Charlotte
Austin, Mr. Ian
Austin, John
Bailey, Mr. Adrian
Banks, Gordon
Barlow, Ms Celia
Battle, rh John
Bayley, Hugh
Bell, Sir Stuart
Benton, Mr. Joe
Betts, Mr. Clive
Blackman, Liz
Blizzard, Mr. Bob
Bradshaw, Mr. Ben
Brennan, Kevin
Brown, rh Mr. Nicholas
Browne, rh Des
Bryant, Chris
Buck, Ms Karen
Burden, Richard
Burgon, Colin
Burnham, rh Andy
Butler, Ms Dawn
Byers, rh Mr. Stephen
Byrne, Mr. Liam
Caborn, rh Mr. Richard
Cairns, David
Campbell, Mr. Alan
Cawsey, Mr. Ian
Chapman, Ben
Clapham, Mr. Michael
Clark, Ms Katy
Clarke, rh Mr. Tom
Clelland, Mr. David
Clwyd, rh Ann
Coaker, Mr. Vernon
Coffey, Ann
Cohen, Harry
Cook, Frank
Cooper, Rosie
Cooper, Yvette
Cousins, Jim
Crausby, Mr. David
Cruddas, Jon
Cummings, John
Cunningham, Mr. Jim
Cunningham, Tony
David, Mr. Wayne
Davies, Mr. Dai
Davies, Mr. Quentin
Dean, Mrs. Janet
Devine, Mr. Jim
Dobbin, Jim
Doran, Mr. Frank
Dowd, Jim
Dunwoody, Mrs. Gwyneth
Eagle, Angela
Eagle, Maria
Efford, Clive
Ellman, Mrs. Louise
Engel, Natascha
Farrelly, Paul
Field, rh Mr. Frank
Fitzpatrick, Jim
Flello, Mr. Robert
Flynn, Paul
Follett, Barbara
Foster, Mr. Michael (Worcester)
Foster, Michael Jabez (Hastings and Rye)
Francis, Dr. Hywel
Gardiner, Barry
Gerrard, Mr. Neil
Gibson, Dr. Ian
Goggins, Paul
Goodman, Helen
Griffith, Nia
Gwynne, Andrew
Hall, Mr. Mike
Hall, Patrick
Hamilton, Mr. Fabian
Havard, Mr. Dai
Hendrick, Mr. Mark
Hesford, Stephen
Heyes, David
Hill, rh Keith
Hillier, Meg
Hodge, rh Margaret
Hoey, Kate
Hoon, rh Mr. Geoffrey
Hope, Phil
Hopkins, Kelvin
Howarth, rh Mr. George
Howells, Dr. Kim
Hoyle, Mr. Lindsay
Hughes, rh Beverley
Humble, Mrs. Joan
Hutton, rh Mr. John
Iddon, Dr. Brian
Illsley, Mr. Eric
Ingram, rh Mr. Adam
Irranca-Davies, Huw
Jackson, Glenda
James, Mrs. Siân C.
Jenkins, Mr. Brian
Jones, Helen
Jones, Mr. Kevan
Jones, Lynne
Jones, Mr. Martyn
Joyce, Mr. Eric
Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald
Keeble, Ms Sally
Keeley, Barbara
Kennedy, rh Jane
Khan, Mr. Sadiq
Kidney, Mr. David
Kilfoyle, Mr. Peter
Knight, Jim
Kumar, Dr. Ashok
Ladyman, Dr. Stephen
Lammy, Mr. David
Laxton, Mr. Bob
Lazarowicz, Mark
Lepper, David
Levitt, Tom
Lewis, Mr. Ivan
Linton, Martin
Love, Mr. Andrew
MacShane, rh Mr. Denis
Mactaggart, Fiona
Mahmood, Mr. Khalid
Malik, Mr. Shahid
Mann, John
Marsden, Mr. Gordon
Marshall, Mr. David
McAvoy, rh Mr. Thomas
McCafferty, Chris
McCarthy, Kerry
McCarthy-Fry, Sarah
McDonagh, Siobhain
McFadden, Mr. Pat
McIsaac, Shona
McKechin, Ann
McKenna, Rosemary
McNulty, Mr. Tony
Meale, Mr. Alan
Merron, Gillian
Michael, rh Alun
Miliband, rh Edward
Mitchell, Mr. Austin
Moffat, Anne
Moffatt, Laura
Mole, Chris
Moon, Mrs. Madeleine
Morgan, Julie
Morley, rh Mr. Elliot
Mountford, Kali
Mudie, Mr. George
Mullin, Mr. Chris
Munn, Meg
Murphy, Mr. Denis
Murphy, Mr. Jim
Murphy, rh Mr. Paul
Norris, Dan
O'Hara, Mr. Edward
Olner, Mr. Bill
Owen, Albert
Palmer, Dr. Nick
Pearson, Ian
Plaskitt, Mr. James
Pope, Mr. Greg
Prentice, Bridget
Prentice, Mr. Gordon
Prosser, Gwyn
Purchase, Mr. Ken
Purnell, rh James
Rammell, Bill
Raynsford, rh Mr. Nick
Reed, Mr. Andy
Reed, Mr. Jamie
Reid, rh John
Robertson, John
Robinson, Mr. Geoffrey
Roy, Mr. Frank
Ruane, Chris
Russell, Christine
Salter, Martin
Seabeck, Alison
Shaw, Jonathan
Sheerman, Mr. Barry
Sheridan, Jim
Singh, Mr. Marsha
Skinner, Mr. Dennis
Slaughter, Mr. Andy
Smith, rh Mr. Andrew
Smith, Ms Angela C. (Sheffield, Hillsborough)
Smith, Angela E. (Basildon)
Smith, rh Jacqui
Snelgrove, Anne
Soulsby, Sir Peter
Southworth, Helen
Spellar, rh Mr. John
Stoate, Dr. Howard
Strang, rh Dr. Gavin
Stringer, Graham
Stuart, Ms Gisela
Sutcliffe, Mr. Gerry
Taylor, Ms Dari
Taylor, David
Thomas, Mr. Gareth
Thornberry, Emily
Timms, rh Mr. Stephen
Tipping, Paddy
Todd, Mr. Mark
Touhig, rh Mr. Don
Trickett, Jon
Truswell, Mr. Paul
Turner, Dr. Desmond
Turner, Mr. Neil
Twigg, Derek
Ussher, Kitty
Vaz, rh Keith
Vis, Dr. Rudi
Walley, Joan
Waltho, Lynda
Wareing, Mr. Robert N.
Whitehead, Dr. Alan
Wicks, Malcolm
Williams, Mrs. Betty
Wills, Mr. Michael
Winnick, Mr. David
Winterton, rh Ms Rosie
Wood, Mike
Woodward, rh Mr. Shaun
Woolas, Mr. Phil
Wright, Mr. Anthony
Wright, David
Wright, Mr. Iain
Wright, Dr. Tony
Wyatt, Derek
Tellers for the Noes:
Mark Tami and
Claire Ward
Question accordingly negatived.
‘(1) Section 22 of the Estate Agents Act 1979 (c. 38) (standards of competence) is amended as follows.
(2) For subsections (1) and (2) substitute—
“(1) The Secretary of State will by regulations made by statutory instrument designate any body of persons as an approved body to which people engaged in estate agency work, including both the sale and lettings of residential property, must belong.
(2) The approved bodies must make membership conditional on signing up to rules and codes of conduct, which will—
(a) set minimum standards of training and qualifications required, and
(b) ensure that firms have adequate professional indemnity insurance and, as appropriate, clients money protection insurance.
(3) No order shall be made under subsection (1) unless a draft of it has been laid before, and approved by a resolution of, each House of Parliament.
(4) Before making an order under subsection (1) the Secretary of State must consult—
(a) organisations representing the interests of consumers,
(b) other persons appearing to the Secretary of State to be representative of persons who have an interest in the matter.”’.— [Susan Kramer.]
Brought up, and read the First time.
Motion made, and Question put, That the clause be read a Second time:—
The House divided: Ayes 27, Noes 240.
AYES
Barrett, John
Brooke, Annette
Browne, Mr. Jeremy
Bruce, rh Malcolm
Burstow, Mr. Paul
Cable, Dr. Vincent
Clegg, Mr. Nick
Davey, Mr. Edward
Featherstone, Lynne
Foster, Mr. Don
George, Andrew
Harris, Dr. Evan
Harvey, Nick
Hemming, John
Howarth, David
Hughes, Simon
Huhne, Chris
Kramer, Susan
Moore, Mr. Michael
Mulholland, Greg
Price, Adam
Reid, Mr. Alan
Spink, Bob
Stunell, Andrew
Teather, Sarah
Williams, Hywel
Willott, Jenny
Tellers for the Ayes:
Mr. Roger Williams and
Lorely Burt
NOES
Allen, Mr. Graham
Anderson, Mr. David
Anderson, Janet
Atkins, Charlotte
Austin, Mr. Ian
Austin, John
Bailey, Mr. Adrian
Banks, Gordon
Barlow, Ms Celia
Battle, rh John
Bayley, Hugh
Bell, Sir Stuart
Benton, Mr. Joe
Betts, Mr. Clive
Blackman, Liz
Blizzard, Mr. Bob
Bradshaw, Mr. Ben
Brown, rh Mr. Nicholas
Browne, rh Des
Bruce, rh Malcolm
Bryant, Chris
Buck, Ms Karen
Burden, Richard
Burgon, Colin
Burnham, rh Andy
Butler, Ms Dawn
Byers, rh Mr. Stephen
Byrne, Mr. Liam
Caborn, rh Mr. Richard
Cairns, David
Campbell, Mr. Alan
Cawsey, Mr. Ian
Chapman, Ben
Clapham, Mr. Michael
Clark, Ms Katy
Clarke, rh Mr. Tom
Clelland, Mr. David
Clwyd, rh Ann
Coaker, Mr. Vernon
Coffey, Ann
Cohen, Harry
Cook, Frank
Cooper, Rosie
Cooper, Yvette
Cousins, Jim
Crausby, Mr. David
Cruddas, Jon
Cummings, John
Cunningham, Mr. Jim
Cunningham, Tony
David, Mr. Wayne
Davies, Mr. Dai
Davies, Mr. Quentin
Dean, Mrs. Janet
Devine, Mr. Jim
Dobbin, Jim
Doran, Mr. Frank
Dowd, Jim
Dunwoody, Mrs. Gwyneth
Eagle, Angela
Eagle, Maria
Efford, Clive
Ellman, Mrs. Louise
Engel, Natascha
Farrelly, Paul
Field, rh Mr. Frank
Fitzpatrick, Jim
Flello, Mr. Robert
Flynn, Paul
Follett, Barbara
Foster, Mr. Michael (Worcester)
Foster, Michael Jabez (Hastings and Rye)
Francis, Dr. Hywel
Gardiner, Barry
Gerrard, Mr. Neil
Gibson, Dr. Ian
Goggins, Paul
Goodman, Helen
Griffith, Nia
Gwynne, Andrew
Hall, Mr. Mike
Hall, Patrick
Hamilton, Mr. Fabian
Havard, Mr. Dai
Hendrick, Mr. Mark
Hesford, Stephen
Heyes, David
Hill, rh Keith
Hillier, Meg
Hodge, rh Margaret
Hoey, Kate
Hoon, rh Mr. Geoffrey
Hope, Phil
Hopkins, Kelvin
Howarth, rh Mr. George
Hoyle, Mr. Lindsay
Hughes, rh Beverley
Humble, Mrs. Joan
Hutton, rh Mr. John
Iddon, Dr. Brian
Illsley, Mr. Eric
Ingram, rh Mr. Adam
Irranca-Davies, Huw
Jackson, Glenda
James, Mrs. Siân C.
Jenkins, Mr. Brian
Jones, Helen
Jones, Mr. Kevan
Jones, Lynne
Jones, Mr. Martyn
Joyce, Mr. Eric
Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald
Keeble, Ms Sally
Keeley, Barbara
Keen, Ann
Kennedy, rh Jane
Khan, Mr. Sadiq
Kidney, Mr. David
Kilfoyle, Mr. Peter
Knight, Jim
Kumar, Dr. Ashok
Ladyman, Dr. Stephen
Lammy, Mr. David
Laxton, Mr. Bob
Lazarowicz, Mark
Lepper, David
Levitt, Tom
Lewis, Mr. Ivan
Linton, Martin
Love, Mr. Andrew
MacShane, rh Mr. Denis
Mactaggart, Fiona
Mahmood, Mr. Khalid
Malik, Mr. Shahid
Mann, John
Marsden, Mr. Gordon
Marshall, Mr. David
McAvoy, rh Mr. Thomas
McCafferty, Chris
McCarthy, Kerry
McCarthy-Fry, Sarah
McDonagh, Siobhain
McFadden, Mr. Pat
McIsaac, Shona
McKechin, Ann
McKenna, Rosemary
McNulty, Mr. Tony
Merron, Gillian
Michael, rh Alun
Miliband, rh Edward
Mitchell, Mr. Austin
Moffat, Anne
Mole, Chris
Moon, Mrs. Madeleine
Morgan, Julie
Morley, rh Mr. Elliot
Mountford, Kali
Mudie, Mr. George
Mullin, Mr. Chris
Munn, Meg
Murphy, Mr. Denis
Murphy, Mr. Jim
Murphy, rh Mr. Paul
Norris, Dan
O'Hara, Mr. Edward
Olner, Mr. Bill
Owen, Albert
Palmer, Dr. Nick
Plaskitt, Mr. James
Pope, Mr. Greg
Prentice, Bridget
Prentice, Mr. Gordon
Prosser, Gwyn
Purchase, Mr. Ken
Purnell, rh James
Rammell, Bill
Raynsford, rh Mr. Nick
Reed, Mr. Andy
Reed, Mr. Jamie
Reid, rh John
Robertson, John
Robinson, Mr. Geoffrey
Rooney, Mr. Terry
Roy, Mr. Frank
Ruane, Chris
Russell, Christine
Salter, Martin
Seabeck, Alison
Shaw, Jonathan
Sheerman, Mr. Barry
Sheridan, Jim
Singh, Mr. Marsha
Skinner, Mr. Dennis
Slaughter, Mr. Andy
Smith, rh Mr. Andrew
Smith, Ms Angela C. (Sheffield, Hillsborough)
Smith, Angela E. (Basildon)
Smith, rh Jacqui
Snelgrove, Anne
Soulsby, Sir Peter
Southworth, Helen
Spellar, rh Mr. John
Stoate, Dr. Howard
Strang, rh Dr. Gavin
Stringer, Graham
Stuart, Ms Gisela
Sutcliffe, Mr. Gerry
Taylor, Ms Dari
Taylor, David
Thomas, Mr. Gareth
Thornberry, Emily
Timms, rh Mr. Stephen
Tipping, Paddy
Todd, Mr. Mark
Touhig, rh Mr. Don
Trickett, Jon
Truswell, Mr. Paul
Turner, Dr. Desmond
Turner, Mr. Neil
Twigg, Derek
Ussher, Kitty
Vis, Dr. Rudi
Walley, Joan
Waltho, Lynda
Wareing, Mr. Robert N.
Whitehead, Dr. Alan
Wicks, Malcolm
Williams, Mrs. Betty
Wills, Mr. Michael
Wilson, Sammy
Winnick, Mr. David
Winterton, rh Ms Rosie
Wood, Mike
Woodward, rh Mr. Shaun
Woolas, Mr. Phil
Wright, Mr. Anthony
Wright, David
Wright, Mr. Iain
Wright, Dr. Tony
Wyatt, Derek
Tellers for the Noes:
Claire Ward and
Mark Tami
Question accordingly negatived.
Mr. Timms: I beg to move amendment No. 1, page 12, line 38, at end insert—
‘( ) If the Secretary of State gives such consent, the Secretary of State must publish a notice stating that consent has been given and specifying the reasons for giving consent.’
The amendment relates to the National Consumer Council’s voluntary activities functions in this part of the Bill. Clause 22 provides for the new council to acquire an interest in a company, subject to the consent of the Secretary of State. In Committee, an amendment was tabled by the hon. Member for Hertford and Stortford (Mr. Prisk) which would have provided that the Secretary of State should publish the reasons for any approval given to a request by the new NCC to acquire an interest in a body corporate.
We accepted the amendment in principle, as that is entirely in line with the Government’s commitment to transparency and openness in their dealings with the new council, and we committed to table an amendment along those lines. This amendment honours that commitment. It ensures that any consent given by the Secretary of State to a proposal by the new council to acquire an interest in a company, and the reasons for that decision, are publicly available and open to public scrutiny. I am glad to commend the amendment to the House.
Mr. Clifton-Brown: I thank the Minister for accepting the principle that my hon. Friend the Member for Hertford and Stortford (Mr. Prisk) put across in Committee and for tabling the Government amendment, which incorporates what was discussed there. The new NCC must be independent, and it was important to seek from the Government an assurance that there are satisfactory management and audit oversight provisions to ensure that public money is well spent. I am sure that the Minister agrees with that. The power in the original clause was wide, and there was concern over the lack of a specific mechanism to prevent the NCC from incurring significant losses on a particular business venture. We have seen that with certain educational institutions that go out into business ventures abroad. Specifically, the amendment ensures that the reasons behind any consent given by the Secretary of State will be in the public domain, thus ensuring accountability and transparency. Again, I thank the Minister for tabling it.
Mr. Clifton-Brown: I beg to move amendment No. 8, page 16, line 43, leave out subsection (4).
The CBI has significant concerns relating to the protection of commercially sensitive information under the Bill. Under clause 24, the NCC is given wide-ranging powers to obtain information from a number of bodies, including the Office of Fair Trading and various sectoral regulators, as well as businesses. The only limitation seems to be that the information must be required for the purposes of exercising the council’s functions. I am sure that the House can begin to see that the purpose of the amendment is to protect sensitive commercial information that has been demanded from a company under the powers in the Bill from reaching the public domain and thus, perhaps, some commercial competitors.
The provisions in the Bill on disclosure of such information are contained in clause 29 and are complex. They are linked to part 9 of the Enterprise Act 2002, which includes clear safeguards against the release of consumer and competition information which has been provided to public authorities. Such safeguards were seen as essential in building business support for, and confidence in, the new enforcement regime that was established under 2002 Act. That legislation struck a careful balance between the need for enforcement authorities to seek and obtain sensitive information in the effective discharge of their functions while protecting commercial information from disclosure except under specific and deliberately narrow gateways.
The council will need to have regard to the considerations in section 244 of the 2002 Act before disclosure. Those include the need to exclude from disclosure, as far as is practicable, commercial information which the authority thinks might significantly harm the company’s legitimate business interests. However, the underlying presumption against disclosure under part 9 will not, by virtue of clause 29(4), apply to the NCC. We do not understand the justification for not applying that presumption, which is deemed necessary to prevent the release of business information by public authorities, to the council. There is a risk that commercially sensitive information could find its way into the public domain and thus to competitors. The amendment would ensure that part 9 safeguards applied to the new NCC.
Mr. Timms: The amendment would remove a necessary provision and I will therefore resist it. It is necessary for technical reasons and I hope that I can at least outline them, as I understand the concerns that the hon. Member for Cotswold (Mr. Clifton-Brown) has about clause 29(4).
Clause 29 deals with the disclosure of information by the new NCC. The new council has important functions, which are designed to serve the interests of consumers, including—under clauses 10 and 19—the provision of information. It is important that we achieve a balance between the new council being able
to discharge its statutory functions and ensuring that it respects the confidentiality of the information that it has obtained.
In creating the new council, we need to ensure that it can deal with not only the issues that span consumer interests generally, but the specific sectoral issues in the gas, electricity, and postal services markets. The current National Consumer Council does not exercise statutory functions and is therefore not subject to the general information disclosure provisions in the Enterprise Act 2002. Energywatch and Postwatch are subject to the specific information disclosure regimes in the Utilities Act 2000 and the Postal Services Act 2000 respectively, which apply to those bodies and to the regulators.
In bringing together the statutory consumer bodies in the energy and postal services sectors—and in providing for the possible inclusion of the consumer body for water too, following consultation next year—we have set out a single information disclosure regime for the new council instead of subjecting it to separate information regimes, depending on the source of the information. That would have resulted in complex and perhaps even unworkable provisions.
The existing gateways in the Enterprise Act 2002 provide for disclosure of information by public bodies in the exercise of their functions and to facilitate the exercise of functions by another public body. However, the new council has several functions of publishing reports or information, and they are listed in clause 29(4). We concluded that, when the function was to publish information, the disclosure involved could not be said to
| Next Section | Index | Home Page |