Clause
37
Extension
of the Council’s functions: Great
Britain
Mr.
Prisk:
I beg to move amendment No. 29, in clause 37, page
22, line 3, at end
insert
‘,
including companies and industry experts who would be affected by such
an
order’.
This
probing amendment relates to subsection (3)(c). Its purpose is to
ensure that the Secretary of State consults other stakeholders when
extending the NCC’s functions. Given that the NCC will, under
clause 21, have the power to establish business connections and
therefore receive support from business and industry, it is important
that those companies should be consulted if the functions of the
council change. The purpose of the amendment is to seek the
Minister’s view and to discover exactly how the Government
intend to
proceed.
Stephen
Pound:
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his
characteristic generosity, which is so typical of his noble spirit, in
allowing me to intervene yet again. How would he define
“industry experts”? Karl Marx was an expert on industry,
and if he were alive, I doubt whether he would want to be
consulted—or perhaps he would. What is an industry expert?
Surely, either we are all industry experts, or there is a specific
category of people who belong to the national federation of industrial
experts.
Mr.
Prisk:
The national federation of industrial experts would
be a fascinating body. What a gathering it would be and what a
glitterati of business expertise would
join.
The hon.
Gentleman rightly points out that the language must be clear. This is a
probing amendment, but my interpretation is that industry experts would
be experts in their industry, and would principally be trade and
representative bodies. Their expertise might be sector specific, but it
might not. The aim is to ensure that, as principal players in the
field, they should be consulted
appropriately.
Susan
Kramer:
I want to make one short
comment, which was made earlier. The NCC’s primary role is to
represent consumers. It is obviously appropriate to consult with
industry when it might be brought under the umbrella, and there are
occasions when industry is a consumer. Will the Minister reinforce the
perspective of the NCC, which will not primarily be open to lobbying by
business? It will primarily face the consumer’s
lobby.
Jim
Fitzpatrick:
I shall respond to the hon.
Lady’s point. We had a useful discussion on Tuesday about the
definition of “consumer” and we agreed that businesses,
particularly small businesses, are consumers in many respects, so there
is a role for the NCC to represent business in a number of ways. That
is not what the amendment is about; it is about consumer entitlement.
None the less, I hope that I have clarified the hon. Lady’s
point.
I am grateful
to the hon. Member for Hertford and Stortford for tabling the
amendment, but I am not saying that we will accept it—one is
probably enough today. There was a good debate on this point in the
other place, but perhaps this is an opportunity for further
clarification.
Clause
37 will permit the Secretary of State, by order, to confer on the new
council any other function if he
“considers that it in the
interests of consumers generally, or consumers of a particular
description, to do
so.”
The clause
provides two key conditions for the use of that power. First, the
functions envisaged must relate directly to an existing or former
function of the council. Secondly, before making an order under the
clause, the Secretary of State will be obliged to consult the council,
Welsh Ministers in cases that might affect
Wales and the functions exercisable by Welsh Ministers, and such other
persons as the Secretary of State considers
appropriate. The
amendment to the last category would add
“including companies and industry
experts who would be affected by such an
order”.
Any consultation
undertaken under the clause would be public consultation. As is our
established practice, any consultation should try to reach all those
who may have an interest in the subject, together with all those who
may have a valuable contribution to make if their interest can be
sparked. It follows that it is part of good consultation practice to
seek to reach all those potential consultees who are affected by the
proposals and who may have a contribution to
make.
The range of
stakeholders consulted will depend very much on the nature of what is
proposed and on those who may be affected by it. However, it stands to
reason that if businesses would be affected by the proposed new
functions, it would be right, proper and necessary for the Secretary of
State to consult businesses and trade associations as appropriate. In
addition, as the consultation would be public, it would certainly be
open to anyone, including companies and industry experts affected by
any proposed extension of functions, to contribute their
views.
I
believe that the existing provision makes sensible and adequate
provision for consulting a range of appropriate persons, and for those
reasons and my additional clarification, I hope that the hon. Gentleman
will understand why we do not believe that the amendment is
necessary.
Mr.
Prisk:
Just for a giddy moment, I thought from the
Minister’s opening remarks that we were going to get two crumbs
from the table; but sadly, it is not to be. Nevertheless, his remarks
that it would be right, proper and necessary for the organisations to
which I refer, including industrial experts of all character, to be
consulted are encouraging. On that basis and having heard that and got
it on the record, I beg leave to withdraw the
amendment.
Amendment,
by leave,
withdrawn.
Clause
37 ordered to stand part of the
Bill.
Clauses
38
to
41 ordered to stand part of the
Bill.
Further
consideration adjourned.—
[
Steve
McCabe.]
Adjourned
accordingly at three minutes to Two o’clock till Tuesday 24
April at half-past Ten
o’clock.
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