 House of Commons |
Session 2006 - 07 Publications on the internet General Committee Debates Sustainable Communities |
Sustainable Communities Bill |
The Committee consisted of the following Members:Alan
Sandall, Committee
Clerk
†
attended the Committee
Public Bill CommitteeWednesday 23 May 2007(Morning)[John Cummings in the Chair]Sustainable Communities Bill10
am
The
Chairman:
The Committee is considering amendment No. 32 to
clause 3, along with amendments Nos. 33 and 34, tabled by
Mr. Hurd. When the Committee adjourned on 9 May,
Mr. Hurd was responding to that debate and was going to
indicate whether he wished to press the amendments to avote.
Since then, a number of amendments and newclauses have been
tabled that are relevant to those amendments. These can be debated
along with Government amendment No. 35 when we reach the schedule.
Decisions on new clauses will be taken after all the clauses have been
disposed of.
Clause 3Representations
by principal councils in connection with the action
plan
Amendment
proposed [9 May]: No. 32, in clause 3, page 3, line 11, leave out
‘on a plan under section 2(3)(b)’ and insert
‘under section 2(5)’.—[Mr.
Drew.]
Question
again proposed, That the amendment be
made.
The
Chairman:
I remind the Committee that with this we are
discussing the following amendments:No. 33, in
clause 3, page 3, line 21, leave
out ‘of residents under 25 years old.’ and
insert
‘through panels
set up in accordance with subsection (1A) of residents, employers and
employees in the council’s area and in particular
of—
(i) young people in the
area;
(ii) persons from ethnic
minorities;
(iii) tenants in
social housing;
(iv) persons
living on lower incomes;
(v)
persons with disabilities;
(vi)
persons living in deprived areas;
and
(vii) persons over 60 years
of age.
An area is deprived for
the purposes of sub-paragraph (vii) if the official male adult
unemployment rate exceeds 10 per cent., or if more than 20 per cent. of
households have net incomes below £15,000 per
year.
(1A) For the purposes of
this Act, a principal council shall, so far as is practicable, arrange
for one or more panels to be established in its area representing
persons who live in its area or who work or employ workers in its area
and any such panel shall, so far as is practicable
include—
(a)
representatives of the categories of persons specified in subsection
(1)(d)(i) to (viii), and
(b)
representatives of such persons or bodies as the council considers
appropriate being persons or bodies of any nature who exercise
functions or are
engaged in activities in relation to the sustainability of local
communities in the council’s area;
and
(c) an equal number of male
and female members.
For the
purposes of this subsection a member of a panelmay represent
more than one of the categories specified in subsection
(1)(d).’.
No.
34, in
clause 3, page 3, line 25, leave
out from ‘council’ to end of line 42 and
insert—
‘(3) A principal
council shall cooperate with any panel set up in its area under
subsection (1A) in making recommendations under section
2(5).’.
Mr.
Nick Hurd (Ruislip-Northwood) (Con): I welcome you to the
Chair, Mr. Cummings. I am sure that you share my wish that
we draw our proceedings to a close today, as do the rest of the
Committee. In that spirit, let me go straight to the
point.
We intend to
push the amendments to a vote andtest the consensus of the
Committee. We had a useful debate in an earlier sitting. A particular
point was well made and, I believe, accepted by the Minister: that
there is merit in considering going beyond clause 108 of the Local
Government and Public Involvement in Health Bill with regard to
guidance to councils on what is required for engaging local communities
in this process. In particular, we highlighted the value of the concept
of introducing citizens panels into the process and the need to engage
the disengaged—I think that that was the phrase that was
used—to ensure that the quiet voice in the community is
heard.
We believe
that the Minister is generally supportive of these proposals and the
principles underlying the amendments—that, I think, is supported
by analysis of the record. However, it was not adequately reflected in
the proposed Government amendments. Although I acknowledge, as my hon.
Friend the Member for Kettering and others helpfully said, that there
may be shortcomings in the drafting of the amendments, particularly in
relation to definitions of deprivation, I feel that we have to push the
ball back towards the Government to sort those out, in a spirit of
needing to move on. We do not want to lose sight of the important
principles that underlie the amendments, so I ask the Committee to vote
in their
favour.
The
Minister for Local Government (Mr. Phil
Woolas):
I agree with the hon. Gentleman that it is
desirable to finish our proceedings today. We have had several sittings
of detailed debate on how we can move forward with a workable Bill,
which is the intention of all members of the Committee and certainly of
the Government. Perhaps more from my point of view, we should also
ensure that the Bill does not contradict other legislation, and in
particular that it will dovetail with the Local Government and Public
Involvement in Health Bill, which received its Third Reading in the
House of Commons last night.
In our debates, we have
outlined some of the difficulties and disagreements between members of
the Committee as to how we can make the Bill workable, and I have
tabled a number of amendments on behalf of the Government to try to
improve it. In some instances those improvements have been seen by some
Committee members as not helpful and as watering down the provisions. I
have a number of problems with
the wording and the mechanisms, but I think that we have achieved
tremendous success.
We have now engaged with the
Local Government Association on how we can take forward the process of
proposals coming up from local authorities, the LGA considering those
proposals, the relationship between the LGA and the Government, and
strengtheningthe central-local partnership. I think that that
has been beneficial. We will be going on to discuss clause 5, so I will
probably wait until then to express some of my fears over the
mechanisms. I do not intend to oppose the amendments, although I have
put on record some of my concerns, which are about what I regard as
their imperfections, rather than disagreements in
principle.
Finally, I
will emphasise the importance, as we see it, of clause 108 of the local
government Bill, which is directly relevant to clause 3. I reiterate
what I said at last week’s sitting: the legal wording in that
Bill may give the impression that clause 108 is
discretionary.Let me assure members of the Committee that it
isnot discretionary; it is a duty. The intention of the
amendments is to build on that, so I will hold back my remarks and
return to them in the debate on clause
5.
Mr.
Oliver Letwin (West Dorset) (Con): I am grateful to the
Minister for his approach. We anticipate and envisage that between
today and the date of Report he will have the opportunity to look at
how one might handle the imperfections, as he calls them, so that they
can be discussed on Report. That is assuming that we manage, under your
chairmanship, Mr. Cummings, to reach an end of the Committee
proceedings today.
It
is certainly the intention of the Conservatives, and also, I am sure,
of our Liberal Democrat colleagues, to accept those remedies on Report,
if the imperfections can be ironed out in a way that is consistent with
the intentions well understood by the Committee and, as the Minister
has indicated, by him. We intend not to set up a confrontation, but
rather to put an end to what otherwise could be interminable
discussions, in order that we can have a proper workmanlike resolution.
I hope that he will be willing to ensure that some of his colleagues do
not labour unduly in proposing or discussing the amendments on
Report.
Mr.
David Drew (Stroud) (Lab/Co-op): I will not detain the
Committee long, but I would like to say that I hope that we carry on in
the same spirit and thatwe can make some real progress on this
Bill. The amendments, if not perfect, are in the spirit of what we need
now to do with the
clause.
I moved the
amendment, but I am more than happy to pass the responsibility for
deciding whether to press it to the promoter of the Bill, because it is
important that this is a cross-party Bill, as we have always made
clear. There have been some contentious issues, but I look forward to
further discussions—not that we have not had a few already. It
is important to get this right, as the world outside expects us to, but
it would be helpful if we did so sooner rather than
later.
Amendment
agreed
to.
Amendments
made: No. 33, in clause 3, page 3,line 21, leave out
‘of residents under 25 years old.’ and insert
‘through panels set up in
accordance with subsection (1A) of residents, employers and employees
in the council’s area and in particular
of—
(i) young people in the
area;
(ii) persons from ethnic
minorities;
(iii) tenants in
social housing;
(iv) persons
living on lower incomes;
(v)
persons with disabilities;
(vi)
persons living in deprived areas;
and
(vii) persons over 60 years
of age.
An area is deprived for
the purposes of sub-paragraph (vii) if the official male adult
unemployment rate exceeds 10 per cent., or if more than 20 per cent. of
households have net incomes below £15,000 per
year.
(1A) For the purposes of
this Act, a principal council shall, so far as is practicable, arrange
for one or more panels to be established in its area representing
persons who live in its area or who work or employ workers in its area
and any such panel shall, so far as is practicable
include—
(a)
representatives of the categories of persons specified in subsection
(1)(d)(i) to (viii), and
(b)
representatives of such persons or bodies as the council considers
appropriate being persons or bodies of any nature who exercise
functions or are engaged in activities in relation to the
sustainability of local communities in the council’s area;
and
(c) an equal number of male
and female members.
For the
purposes of this subsection a member of a panelmay represent
more than one of the categories specified in subsection
(1)(d).’.
No.
34, in
clause 3, page 3, line 25, leave
out from ‘council’ to end of line 42 and
insert—
‘(3) A principal
council shall cooperate with any panel set up in its area under
subsection (1A) in making recommendations under section
2(5).’.—[Mr.
Hurd.]
The
Chairman, being of the opinion that the principle of the
clause and any matters arising thereon had been adequately discussed in
the course of the debate onthe amendments proposed thereto,
forthwith put the Question, pursuant to Standing Orders Nos. 68 and
89, That the clause, as amended, stand part of the
Bill.
Question put
and agreed
to.
Clause 3,
as amended, ordered to stand part of the
Bill.
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