Select Committee on Constitutional Affairs Minutes of Evidence


Examination of Witnesses (Questions 60-79)

RT HON LORD FALCONER OF THOROTON QC AND ALEX ALLAN

17 APRIL 2007

  Q60 Mr Tyrie: Can you just explain that again. Are you saying there is nobody who was prepared to take on a project as small as 30,000 square feet?

  Lord Falconer of Thoroton: I do not think it is 30,000 square feet. I do not know what the precise figure is. There are two particular sites in Central London—because they need to be within a mile—where you could do it. Nobody on those two sites, which were the only two sites in Central London that could be used, was prepared to do it.

  Q61  Mr Tyrie: Are you suggesting that there are only two sites available in the whole of London that would be suitable for a new build?

  Lord Falconer of Thoroton: Not in the whole of London, no, because we took the view that it had to be within a mile of Central London.

  Q62  Mr Tyrie: Why did you do that?

  Lord Falconer of Thoroton: Because we thought the Supreme Court should be right in Central London.

  Q63  Mr Tyrie: Why?

  Lord Falconer of Thoroton: Because we think it has to be right at the heart of the capital of this country.

  Q64  Mr Tyrie: Do you think that it is in the national interest that it has to be right in the heart of the capital of this country?

  Lord Falconer of Thoroton: I think it is the appropriate place for it.

  Q65  Mr Tyrie: But it might not be in the national interest.

  Lord Falconer of Thoroton: If being in the right place is in the national interest, Mr Tyrie.

  Q66  Mr Tyrie: Being in the right place is always in the national interest in the case of the Supreme Court.

  Lord Falconer of Thoroton: Yes.

  Q67  Mr Tyrie: Right. I am just trying to clarify what you are really saying.

  Lord Falconer of Thoroton: Yes

  Q68  Mr Tyrie: Smiling though you are, I think these are quite serious matters.

  Lord Falconer of Thoroton: Why are you smiling as well, Mr Tyrie?

  Q69  Mr Tyrie: I like to be friendly to witnesses! You are really saying, "We have decided this building will be within a mile of Westminster."

  Lord Falconer of Thoroton: Yes.

  Q70  Mr Tyrie: "We can only identify two sites as small as 30,000 square feet" and you could not persuade a developer to build either of them. Is that right?

  Lord Falconer of Thoroton: No.

  Q71  Mr Tyrie: Did I get that right or wrong?

  Lord Falconer of Thoroton: I think you have that slightly wrong, but it is my fault for obviously not explaining it adequately. In order for it to be a development worth a developer doing, it has to be bigger than the Supreme Court, because just a site that small would not produce the revenue that would make it worthwhile for the developer to build on either of those two sites. You would need a much bigger development to make it worth the developer's while to do the building.

  Q72  Mr Tyrie: With the names, for commercial confidentiality purposes removed, would you be prepared to put all the information on which you have based your remarks—

  Lord Falconer of Thoroton: In confidence, I will give you the two sites, yes.

  Q73  Mr Tyrie: Would you be prepared to put it all in the public domain, including these calculations? I think people listening to this will find it absolutely astonishing that you are saying there was absolutely nowhere in Central London you could consider a new-build site for a supreme court. That is what you have just told me.

  Lord Falconer of Thoroton: I am saying there was no suitable site in Central London on which a new build could have been done by a developer.

  Mr Tyrie: Would you be prepared to put in the public domain all the written material, with, wherever necessary, the names removed to satisfy commercial confidentiality purposes and to spare me an FOI inquiry?

  Chairman: Always assuming you do not stop him from putting in serial requests for information!

  Q74  Mr Tyrie: Always assuming that too.

  Lord Falconer of Thoroton: Could I provide the Committee with enough information for them to verify what I am saying. I would have to look at the documents to see to what extent there is any commercial confidentiality but I should give the Committee enough to make good the points I have been making.

  Q75  Mr Tyrie: When that information is available, it would not surprise me if a bevy of developers will come banging on your door with suggestions.

  Lord Falconer of Thoroton: A bit late.

  Q76 Mr Tyrie: That was my next question.

  Lord Falconer of Thoroton: We have made our decisions. Middlesex Guildhall has closed down for business. Of course subject to the appeal that the Chairman was kind enough to tell me about, we are going to start the work on the site in Middlesex Guildhall.

   Mr Tyrie: You were, until you heard about the appeal. Thank you very much, Chairman.

  Q77  Chairman: Even at this stage, accepting that you are committed to going ahead at Middlesex Guildhall, are you prepared to discuss further with the specialist bodies whether further conservation can be achieved within the brief that you have set?

  Lord Falconer of Thoroton: I do not know what they would propose but there has been a very long and detailed consultation process in relation to this. There is, as Mr Neill identified, it seems to me, a critical point at the heart of this which is that Court 3, which is the most impressive part of the building at the moment, is inevitably going to have to be broken up as a holistic interior. We are doing our level best to preserve the best elements of it, but it is a significantly different room after our intervention. We have done everything in our power to try to mitigate the effects of that. We have put the most tasteful proposals forward in relation to it. We have discussed them with English Heritage and other people as well.

  Q78  Chairman: Do you really need to chisel off the coats of arms of Middlesex from the external walls? Is that a good use of public money or a good treatment for a public building

  Lord Falconer of Thoroton: Chisel off the coat of arms of Middlesex. I am not quite sure to which coat of arms you are referring.

  Q79  Chairman: I understand from the evidence that at various points inside and outside the building, coats of arms which remain from its original Middlesex use are to be effaced or removed.

  Lord Falconer of Thoroton: To which bits are you referring?


 
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