Examination of Witnesses (Questions 60-79)
RT HON
LORD FALCONER
OF THOROTON
QC AND ALEX
ALLAN
17 APRIL 2007
Q60 Mr Tyrie: Can you just explain that
again. Are you saying there is nobody who was prepared to take
on a project as small as 30,000 square feet?
Lord Falconer of Thoroton: I do
not think it is 30,000 square feet. I do not know what the precise
figure is. There are two particular sites in Central Londonbecause
they need to be within a milewhere you could do it. Nobody
on those two sites, which were the only two sites in Central London
that could be used, was prepared to do it.
Q61 Mr Tyrie: Are you suggesting
that there are only two sites available in the whole of London
that would be suitable for a new build?
Lord Falconer of Thoroton: Not
in the whole of London, no, because we took the view that it had
to be within a mile of Central London.
Q62 Mr Tyrie: Why did you do that?
Lord Falconer of Thoroton: Because
we thought the Supreme Court should be right in Central London.
Q63 Mr Tyrie: Why?
Lord Falconer of Thoroton: Because
we think it has to be right at the heart of the capital of this
country.
Q64 Mr Tyrie: Do you think that it
is in the national interest that it has to be right in the heart
of the capital of this country?
Lord Falconer of Thoroton: I think
it is the appropriate place for it.
Q65 Mr Tyrie: But it might not be
in the national interest.
Lord Falconer of Thoroton: If
being in the right place is in the national interest, Mr Tyrie.
Q66 Mr Tyrie: Being in the right
place is always in the national interest in the case of the Supreme
Court.
Lord Falconer of Thoroton: Yes.
Q67 Mr Tyrie: Right. I am just trying
to clarify what you are really saying.
Lord Falconer of Thoroton: Yes
Q68 Mr Tyrie: Smiling though you
are, I think these are quite serious matters.
Lord Falconer of Thoroton: Why
are you smiling as well, Mr Tyrie?
Q69 Mr Tyrie: I like to be friendly
to witnesses! You are really saying, "We have decided this
building will be within a mile of Westminster."
Lord Falconer of Thoroton: Yes.
Q70 Mr Tyrie: "We can only identify
two sites as small as 30,000 square feet" and you could not
persuade a developer to build either of them. Is that right?
Lord Falconer of Thoroton: No.
Q71 Mr Tyrie: Did I get that right
or wrong?
Lord Falconer of Thoroton: I think
you have that slightly wrong, but it is my fault for obviously
not explaining it adequately. In order for it to be a development
worth a developer doing, it has to be bigger than the Supreme
Court, because just a site that small would not produce the revenue
that would make it worthwhile for the developer to build on either
of those two sites. You would need a much bigger development to
make it worth the developer's while to do the building.
Q72 Mr Tyrie: With the names, for
commercial confidentiality purposes removed, would you be prepared
to put all the information on which you have based your remarks
Lord Falconer of Thoroton: In
confidence, I will give you the two sites, yes.
Q73 Mr Tyrie: Would you be prepared
to put it all in the public domain, including these calculations?
I think people listening to this will find it absolutely astonishing
that you are saying there was absolutely nowhere in Central London
you could consider a new-build site for a supreme court. That
is what you have just told me.
Lord Falconer of Thoroton: I am
saying there was no suitable site in Central London on which a
new build could have been done by a developer.
Mr Tyrie: Would you be prepared to put
in the public domain all the written material, with, wherever
necessary, the names removed to satisfy commercial confidentiality
purposes and to spare me an FOI inquiry?
Chairman: Always assuming you do not
stop him from putting in serial requests for information!
Q74 Mr Tyrie: Always assuming that
too.
Lord Falconer of Thoroton: Could
I provide the Committee with enough information for them to verify
what I am saying. I would have to look at the documents to see
to what extent there is any commercial confidentiality but I should
give the Committee enough to make good the points I have been
making.
Q75 Mr Tyrie: When that information
is available, it would not surprise me if a bevy of developers
will come banging on your door with suggestions.
Lord Falconer of Thoroton: A bit
late.
Q76 Mr Tyrie: That was my next question.
Lord Falconer of Thoroton: We
have made our decisions. Middlesex Guildhall has closed down for
business. Of course subject to the appeal that the Chairman was
kind enough to tell me about, we are going to start the work on
the site in Middlesex Guildhall.
Mr Tyrie: You were, until you heard
about the appeal. Thank you very much, Chairman.
Q77 Chairman: Even at this stage,
accepting that you are committed to going ahead at Middlesex Guildhall,
are you prepared to discuss further with the specialist bodies
whether further conservation can be achieved within the brief
that you have set?
Lord Falconer of Thoroton: I do
not know what they would propose but there has been a very long
and detailed consultation process in relation to this. There is,
as Mr Neill identified, it seems to me, a critical point at the
heart of this which is that Court 3, which is the most impressive
part of the building at the moment, is inevitably going to have
to be broken up as a holistic interior. We are doing our level
best to preserve the best elements of it, but it is a significantly
different room after our intervention. We have done everything
in our power to try to mitigate the effects of that. We have put
the most tasteful proposals forward in relation to it. We have
discussed them with English Heritage and other people as well.
Q78 Chairman: Do you really need
to chisel off the coats of arms of Middlesex from the external
walls? Is that a good use of public money or a good treatment
for a public building
Lord Falconer of Thoroton: Chisel
off the coat of arms of Middlesex. I am not quite sure to which
coat of arms you are referring.
Q79 Chairman: I understand from the
evidence that at various points inside and outside the building,
coats of arms which remain from its original Middlesex use are
to be effaced or removed.
Lord Falconer of Thoroton: To
which bits are you referring?
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