Examination of Witnesses (Questions 2580
- 2599)
2580. Questions were put to you about retaining
what were said to be the two most important features. Can you
please just state for the Committee briefly what is the statutory
and policy position in relation to demolition in conservation
areas? What are we seeking?
(Mr Forshaw) What is being sought here is conservation
area consent to demolish the whole building. We believe that the
building as a whole, all the façades are of a positive
architectural and historic interest, it is not just the apex,
the whole of the elevations are of interest here. They have a
very good and strong rhythm and hierarchy to the floors. It is
a very, very pleasing building to look at.
2581. How would what is proposed in terms of
just retaining those two most important features measure up against
the objectives for conservation areas?
(Mr Forshaw) Very poorly. The
objective of conservation areas is to retain buildings that contribute
positively to their character.
2582. Thank you. Questions were put to you towards
the end about it being necessary for there to be a balancing exercise
taking into account the quality of the building, costs and so
on. What evidence have you seen, if any, of that balancing exercise
having been done by the Promoter?
(Mr Forshaw) None.
2583. Mr Honey: Thank you very much.
I have no further questions for the witness.
2584. Chairman: Thank you very much indeed,
Mr Forshaw. Mr Honey, would you like to call your next witness.
The witness withdrew
2585. Mr Honey: My next witness is Mr
Brian Morton.
Mr Brian Morton MBE, Sworn
Examined by Mr Honey
2586. Thank you, Mr Morton. If you are comfortable
there and have all the documents in front of you can I ask you,
please, for the benefit of the Committee to state your qualifications
and appointments?
(Mr Morton) I am a consulting
engineer who has specialised in work on historic buildings for
the last 40 years. In the Honours List last year I was awarded
an MBE for my services to conservation of historic buildings.
I am a Fellow of the Institution of Civil Engineers. I have a
diploma in conservation at the Architectural Association, unusually
because there are few engineers who go down that path. I am a
member of the Institute of Historic Building Conservation. I have
been working on historic buildings for some 40 years. I have worked
on almost every sort of building that is conceivable and through
my office have passed some 9,800 projects since I formed the company,
mainly in the conservation area.
2587. Thank you. What public appointments do
you hold as an engineer?
(Mr Morton) I am engineer
to Canterbury Cathedral. I am on the committee for the fabric
of Westminster Abbey. As engineers, we have just completed the
new tower at Bury St Edmunds Cathedral. We work very closely with
English Heritage and we are trusted by English Heritage. We have
a worldwide reputation for our work in conserving historic buildings.
2588. What is your original professional background?
Do you have any experience of buildings in this area of London?
(Mr Morton) Yes. It is probably
worthwhile starting a little way back. I started working in power
stations with Sir William Halcrow. I then joined a small firm
of consulting engineers, where I worked for 11 years, where they
were involved in historic buildings and that initially started
me looking at historic buildings. We were involved in looking
at vibration effects on cathedrals throughout the UK. As my experience
progressed I became engineer on one of the first early 20 storey
buildings in the centre of London which was constructed using
a secant pile system, one of the earlier buildings that was done
using that system. I spent two years in the district surveyor's
office in Fulham in London where I was responsible as an assistant
district surveyor for supervising the foundation work to multi-storey
buildings and minor buildings. I was responsible for preventing
the demolition of Barlaston Hall in Staffordshire where three
other engineers had failed to put forward proposals where the
building was proposed to settle some three metres over the next
10 years. I went out for a private client for expenses only to
Tortola in the British Virgin Islands and in opposition to seven
engineers was able to put forward proposals for saving a government
building there. Most interestingly, with regard to deep foundation
piling, I was brought in as an arbiter between the City of London
and English Heritage when negotiations broke down for the construction
of a car park in the front of the Guild Hall some 20 metres below
ground. I was the sole arbiter. I put forward, in agreement with
the two bodies, proposals which were then accepted by the contractor
for the form of construction that was eventually adopted. Currently
I am consultant to the practice I formed some 40 years ago which
now has 20 people, all of whom are trained by ourselves to be
engineers of historic buildings.
2589. You mentioned a 20 storey building in
London. Can you identify which building that was?
(Mr Morton) It is Northampton College of Advanced
Technology in Bunbury Row.
2590. In which location?
(Mr Morton) In the City.
2591. Can you please explain very briefly what
you were asked to do by Islington in relation to this petition?
(Mr Morton) I was asked to look at the proposals
that were put forward and advise whether there was any way of
preventing the demolition of this building.
2592. What were you provided with in order to
allow that advice to be given?
(Mr Morton) I was provided
with the information that Islington made available to me. Latterly,
in fact on Friday, I did receive Crossrail's Mott MacDonald Consulting
Engineers' report on the façade retention. I had nothing
else from Crossrail apart from the basic documents that all have
had.
2593. Have you consulted with anyone else about
the practicalities of realising your proposals?
(Mr Morton) Yes, indeed.
2594. Who was that?
(Mr Morton) We looked for
contractors who have experience and are currently working on tunnelling
on Underground construction. I went and met a company called Scanmooor
who are currently working in Shepherd's Bush who at this moment
are involved in the design of a secant pile shaft for the Underground
in the Shepherd's Bush area. I do not know any details of that.
They went to the site of their own volition and I met them after
they and I had been on site. They indicated that the ideas I had
were reasonable and were possible.
2595. Going on in the document you have as your
proof of evidence to paragraph seven, can you please explain what
is involved in the site by reference to any drawing?
(Mr Morton) The overall
site comprises two properties, 38 and 42 Charterhouse Street.
The requirement is for the construction site to include half the
width of Charterhouse Street and the short length of Fox and Knot
Street. The proposed boundaries of the construction site are shown
on 110 Farringdon which is amongst the bundle.
2596. It is tab 5 in the bundle.[16]
To what did you want to draw the Committee's attention on this
drawing?
(Mr Morton) The mere fact that
the site of our building that it is proposed to demolish is not
part of the permanent development, it is simply part of the construction
site.
2597. What is your opinion, as someone engaged
in historic building matters for some considerable time, as to
the value of number 38 and its characteristics?
(Mr Morton) As we heard
from the Committee Member, I think that building is of significant
importance in its position. I think we have to look at these sorts
of buildings because we are losing our identity, we are losing
what is our past which people so much rely on.
2598. You have included within the bundle at
tab 7 some photographs. Were there particular aspects of those
photographs you wished to draw to the Committee's attention? There
are three photographs in tab 6.
(Mr Morton) Basically this
is a simple building. It shows no significant signs of structural
movement. I have looked through the ground floor and the first
floor of the building. It is certainly under normal conservation
terms a building that would be there forever effectively if it
is properly maintained.
2599. What in particular is the structure at
the end of the building where number 38 adjoins the building at
40-42 next to it?
(Mr Morton) The wall between
this building and the adjacent building is described as a party
wall but I do not believe it is. In fact, I think we have an enclosing
wall which is part of our building. There is a further enclosing
wall on the adjoining site, so effectively I believe we have two
walls together. What we have is a building which is quite secure
in its structure and able to hold itself together very satisfactorily.
16 Committee Ref: A35, Plan of construction site (SCN-20060207-011). Back
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