Examination of Witnesses (Questions 3620
- 3639)
3620. Sir Peter Soulsby: Mine are safely
stapled together!
3621. Mr Dingemans: Can I take you straight
to the "Outstanding Undertakings", so that we do not
travel over the ground that has already been covered, and identify
what we are hoping to persuade the Committee to require the Promoter
to give to us? First of all, in relation to highways, one of the
provisions of the proposed Bill is a power to stop up Lindsey
Street in its entirety. Now, if I may ask you to go back to the
photograph at page 9, you can see, from what I hope will be an
aerial photograph, Lindsey Street is at the end of the market
and I think you have heard, and having read the transcript, Lindsey
Street is critical to the market because, effectively, there is
a one-way system running from Charterhouse Street, round Lindsey
Street and through West Smithfield. The Bill proposes the power
to stop up Lindsey Street in its entirety. If you look at the
undertakings that have been given, "the nominated undertaker
will maintain vehicular access around Lindsey Street" is
one that has been given, and that is to include the 38, 40 and
44 tonne vehicles. The Petitioner's short point in relation to
Lindsey Street is that if there is this undertaking that Lindsey
Street will remain open all the time we would much rather this
provision was removed from the Bill because the effect of having
it in the Bill is that it gives statutory authority to block up
Lindsey Street, and the protection that we are given is only the
undertaking, and we will come back to what is the effect and legal
effect of the undertakings later. That is paragraph 4.1 of my
note.
3622. Paragraph 4.2 is the hours of working.
There is a short point here. The market, as you probably know
from the earlier evidence, works effectively ten at night till
nine in the morning. If construction begins at eight in the morning,
you will have the construction traffic arriving at seven in the
morning, and the effect of that will be, we say on the evidence,
chaos. We just do ask for an adjustment of hours of working.
3623. Paragraph 4.3 is the timing of works,
which is simply to avoid the Farringdon crossover works. In fact,
since this document was produced last night further progress has
been made on that point. It seems that that is not likely to be
a real issue, so I will skip that very quickly, if I may.
3624. In paragraph 4.4, there has been really
substantial progress on dust levels and suppression plans. You
do not need any explanations today of how critical dust and environmental
measures are for a meat market, but one remaining area of difference
is this: that the trigger levels, which are the background levels
that you start monitoring the dust at, are, at the moment, all
within the power of the nominated undertaker. They are going to
carry out some monitoring and consult with us, but then have the
power to decide the trigger levels. We simply ask for a provision
that we be entitled to agree them with agreement not to be unreasonably
withheld, and if we are unreasonable it can go to arbitration.
That is because, as you can imagine, dust is really inconsistent
with the continued function of a market.
3625. Finally, one undertaking is the continuous
use of the market buildings. Everything has been designed to ensure
that the market continues to operate, and we would respectfully
request an undertaking that that be given for the reasons that
I will come back to when we look at remedies for infringement
of undertakings and the effect of the construction works.
3626. Can I drop down to the bottom of page
2?[7]
As far as paragraphs 4.1 to 4.5 are concerned, you are going to
hear evidence from some of the market traders (and I will get
on to them as soon as possible simply because they have been working
overnight—interesting though it is listening to lawyers,
I suspect they would rather get on with the real job of life,
if that is all right) and I will simply identify for the Committee's
consideration the remedies point as briefly as possible, so that
you can identify in the evidence what are going to be the important
points in this respect. I have shown you the undertakings from
the Promoter, which contain the undertakings which have been offered,
and we will need to explain the manner in which those carrying
on in the business operate in the market, the rights and remedies
provided by the Compulsory Purchase Acts, which have been described
as the national compensation code, the effect of the Bill on what
would have been our rights without statutory authorisation and
what we respectfully submit is required to ensure a fair balance
between the public interest in ensuring that Smithfield continues
and the Crossrail Bill is built.
3627. In relation to all those aspects, you
can see that the rights and remedies provided by the national
compensation code and the effect of the Bill on common law rights,
remedies and a fair balance really stray into legal matters, but
it is against that background that you will need to know the manner
in which those carrying on business in the market operate with
those concerns. So, with that very short introduction, if that
is all right, and if I could be a wee bit more boring about the
law later on, I will call Mr Greg Lawrence, who is the Chairman
of the Traders' Association.
Mr Gregory Alfred Lawrence, Sworn
Examined by Mr Dingemans
3628. Mr Dingemans: Can you tell the
Committee your full name?
(Mr Lawrence) Gregory Alfred Lawrence.
3629. What is your occupation?
(Mr Lawrence) I am a meat wholesaler.
3630. Are you a Managing Director of a company?
(Mr Lawrence) I am.
3631. What is that?
(Mr Lawrence) G Lawrence Wholesale
Meat Company Limited.
3632. Are you the Chairman of the Association?
(Mr Lawrence) I am.
3633. In your witness statement I think you
have given us a bit of the background of Smithfield and the Smithfield
Market, but if it is all right I will skip that. It is set out
in various authorities. How long has the Association been continuing?
(Mr Lawrence) I think approximately 120 years.
3634. Who does the Association represent?
(Mr Lawrence) I think it is about 99 per cent
of the tenants of Smithfield Market.
3635. Can you describe to the Committee how
business is carried on at Smithfield Market? First of all, do
you own the premises that you occupy?
(Mr Lawrence) No, we lease them from the Corporation
of London.
3636. I think you have produced a standard lease.
Is that right?
(Mr Lawrence) That is correct.
3637. That is SMTA1 on the numbering. I will
not take you through that now but there are various provisions
of it which are relevant. How long is that lease for?
(Mr Lawrence) Ten years.
3638. When is it due to expire?
(Mr Lawrence) In 2010.
3639. You are protected as a tenant, is that
right, under the 1954 Landlord and Tenants Act?
(Mr Lawrence) That is correct.
7 Committee Ref: A42, Note of submissions on behalf
of Smithfield Market Tenants' Association. Back
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