Examination of Witnesses (Questions 4660
- 4679)
4660. We will leave it to Mr Elvin to explore
the hours of the Borderline Nightclub.
(Mr Tilley) I am sure we can provide some complimentary
tickets!
4661. He probably already knows it. I do not
know. Can we move on then, because we have got some nice design
pictures of what was happening at the time the Crossrail announcement
came about—just to show the scheme? If we go to tabs 4 and
5, Mr Chairman, tab 4 sets out the costs, which we will come to
very briefly later. If I could take you to tab 5,[6]
Mr Tilley, could you explain what would be proposed, first of
all, and then if you want to take the Committee to some of the
designs. I think the Committee, if they wish, can look at some
of them in their own time.
(Mr Tilley) By all means. Back
in 2004 EMI had taken the decision to look into refurbishing our
buildings at 127 Charing Cross Road and the two floors within
12 Goslett Yard. At the time, the second floor of 12 Goslett Yard
was not of the same standard of decoration as the other floors
within 127 and, also, the first floor of 12 Goslett Yard. So we
actually looked into starting off with the refurbishment of the
second floor of 12 Goslett Yard. There is an overall plan scheme,
open-plan areas as the typical layout, which actually shows you
what the intended layout of the floor would be. What we proposed
to do was to start off with the refurbishment of the second floor,
then roll the scheme out and carry out the refurbishment of 127
Charing Cross Road, and then finish off in the first floor of
12 Goslett Yard, the first floor being the most recently refurbished
floor which was refurbished back in 2001, I believe. We therefore
employed a design company called Morey Smith, who spent considerable
time developing the scheme and, also, working with the staff on
the second floor of 12 Goslett Yard. We actually put together
a working party with the staff to look at designs, went to various
others sites that Morey Smith had designed and even went so far
as to start looking at different types of furniture. At this point
we had incurred costs in the region of approximately £41,000.
At that point we received potential notification of a CPO of that
building, and at that point we ceased all works on the design
of 12 Goslett Yard until we could investigate further as to what
the implications would be on EMI and our property strategy.
4662. I do not think we need to go through them,
but just so the Committee know, at tab 4 we have the various invoices
for the work carried out by Morey Smith and we also have, at the
end, the cost budget for the whole scheme and a covering letter
saying that EMI should set aside £½ million for the
full scheme. Can I just ask, very, very briefly, please, Mr Tilley,
about the designers, Morey Smith? They may not be familiar to
all of us, so could you say something about them very briefly?
(Mr Tilley) Morey Smith is quite a well-established
design and architectural practice that have won numerous design
awards. They were used by our parent company EMI Group to design
and build the head office for the EMI Group which is situated
at 27 Wight's Lane, Kensington. They have also carried out work
for companies such as Sony and Channel 4 and they are reputable
and well-known, within the building industry, as a reputable design
company. Because of the nature of our business and, also, with
regard to the way that our business is moving forward, it was
deemed that we needed to look at how our buildings are laid out
and have more of an open-plan feel to promote better communication
within the building. This is why we were actually looking at not
only improving the look of our premises internally but, also,
changing the actual layout of the way that we actually run and
maintain our buildings.
4663. Let us then, if we may, leave that aspect
and just move to the consideration that EMI has given to what
would happen to its operations if Crossrail should go ahead and
12 Goslett Yard be demolished, and the relocation to 127 Charing
Cross Road. I hope I got this right in my opening: the historic
significance of this part of London to the music publishing industry
and to EMI in particular.
(Mr Tilley) Yes, that is correct, Mr Jones.
EMI has been within the area for over 20 years. We actually occupied
premises in a building directly across the road from where the
company is at the moment, and before that we were just on the
other side of Soho as well. Numerous people, quite famous groups,
have actually come to our site and know us to be there.
4664. Can you just give us an indication of
people (I have given two, both of them envisaging all ranges of
the spectrum, but fill the middle in between the two) who have
signed in those buildings?
(Mr Tilley) We have had people like Eminem
who have come in, who is quite a famous international rap star.
Sting has come in, Dave Stewart has come in and still comes in
now; we have got new up-and-coming bands and solo artists—James
Blunt, who is one of our very successful artists at the moment.
Arctic Monkeys, who also are quite a new up-and-coming group,
who are doing exceptionally well as well. Texas is one of our
large bands and they have also been to sign. So even though we
are not from the record side of the business, we are dealing with
music publishing, but we still get quite a few artists that come
in and know us to actually be where we are. So a lot of our support
agencies and services are located within the area as well.
4665. Soho media centre is adjacent to the area
as well.
(Mr Tilley) That is correct.
4666. Could you help the Committee with the
two matters you have touched on? I have described the recording
studio as acoustically sensitive. Could you just explain, obviously,
whether that is right and why it is, and then I will ask you also
just to explain something about the bands that come and play at
the premises and why that is done? If you start with the acoustic
equivalent that is going to go into 127 Charing Cross Road.
(Mr Tilley) I mentioned on the first floor
of 12 Goslett Yard, at the moment, we have a music library. In
part of that music library, they mix and master CDs of music that
go out to clients. So in essence it is not a recording studio
where you would have bands that come in and play; our third site,
which is Evelyn Yard, is an actual recording studio where we have
sound booths, etc, for that. The recording studio that we have
at 12 Goslett Yard is a room that is acoustically treated to ensure
that the sound quality that is generated from the different tracks
which are laid down on to CDs is not interfered with at all by
external noise. The actual positioning of the speakers and the
sound quality within the room, we have spent quite a bit of money
on. The room is acoustically treated with fabrics on the walls
which are proud of the actual structure of the room itself to
ensure that we try and maintain as crystal clear a sound quality
as possible. That is an actual commercial part of our business,
that we ensure that we maintain the acoustic nature of that room.
If that room actually was to transfer from 12 Goslett Yard into
127 Charing Cross Road we would have to ensure that the room was
of the same quality and would be in the same environment as it
currently is at the moment.
4667. The Promoters seem to accept, although
the difference between us is whether they commit to it, that for
our premises as a noise sensitive location the noise levels should
be either the existing noise level or 30dB, whichever is the highest.
If, for shorthand, we refer to 30dB (I do not think it has been
suggested that it is noisier than that at the existing premises)
just explain to me what sort of comfort you would have in terms
of exceedences of 30dB in terms of 127 Charing Cross Road. Is
that something that does not really bother you, in terms of noise
disturbance, or what?
(Mr Tilley) The noise disturbance that actually
bothers EMI is resultant from the actual construction of the project.
We have been assured of the actual running, once Crossrail has
been built, in terms of build, that we would not hear anything
more than currently what we hear at 12 Goslett Yard, because I
understand that there are some rail tracks that actually run underneath
there, which do not actually disturb us. We are concerned about
airborne noise and, also, subterranean noise generated from the
actual construction of the station units and, also, the tunnel.
We have experience quite recently; we have gone through a number
of construction projects either associated with our premises or
with adjoining premises and we are very much aware of the impact
of noise upon our business and disruption to our business, which
does cause us great problems. Being a music company, we need to
be able to listen to music; that is the life-blood of the company,
and if we are going to be within an environment where we have
got an on-going construction project for a number of years then
that is going to cause us some serious problems and impact upon
the running of our business.
4668. But if there could be a guarantee that
30dB would be met, would that provide you with that comfort?
(Mr Tilley) That would provide us with comfort.
4669. I wonder if you could turn on again. The
reason bands come to play, if they are not plugging a CD or something,
why are they coming to play at these buildings?
(Mr Tilley) EMI Music Publishing is an organisation
that is made up, as per most companies, of numerous, different
departments which all have to work together to ensure that the
company is successful and moves forward. We have been awarded
the Music Publishers' Association of the Year Award for years
and years and years; we are a very successful and productive music
publishing company. |
4670. What is that in relation to?
(Mr Tilley) Basically we look after the rights
of the writers of music and to do that we have numerous departments
that basically have to listen to music, sign bands to the company,
track the use of music and support departments, such as facilities,
IT, finance, et cetera, to support the whole process. To ensure
that everybody works and knows exactly what we are doing as a
company, we often have new talents that come to showcase exactly
what EMI Music Publishing is doing and we operate in-house performances
of these groups. Quite recently we had one of our newest artistes
called Luke Toms who did an excellent set for us. Basically it
just generates a better understanding about the company and what
it is that we do, so it is not just the A&R people who have
access to the music side of the business, and it is quite important
that we maintain that.
4671. In terms of that, is the noise climate
significant? I suppose it depends on your view of the music being
played, but, assuming that you want to hear the music, is the
noise climate important?
(Mr Tilley) The noise climate is very important
not only for in-house performance, but for our A&R Department
and our Film and TV Department and various marketing departments
to actually operate within the environment where not only can
they listen to music and the bands that actually come in with
a view to being signed, but also on a day-to-day routine. We get
numerous CDs and music recordings that come in which have to be
listened to. They could be the next big band that could obviously
not only generate a lot of money for the artistes, but also generate
money for EMI Music Publishing. That is how we operate as a business
and if we cannot do that, if we are subject to airborne noise
and subterranean noise for a period of time, then that is really
going to affect our business. I am sure that people will actually
agree that you have to be able to work within a reasonable environment
to do the job and when your job actually requires you to listen
to music, you need a certain amount of quietness to be able to
do that.
4672. There was another issue on the availability
of access, but just so that the Chairman and the Committee know,
we have been offered undertakings and you will find the correspondence
on that at tab 11 from Messrs Winckworth Sherwood, for the Promoters,
and my learned friend indicated that he will give that undertaking
in closing. You will see from the documentation that being raised,
so I am not going to take time up with it now. Could I just, Mr
Tilley, ask you this: you have been involved with negotiations,
and I indicated in opening that we were a little bit disappointed
with maybe some of the attention which had been given to this,
but could you just explain very briefly the position?
(Mr Tilley) Certainly. When we received notification
of the proposal of compulsory purchase of 12 Goslett Yard, we
obviously put on hold all of our plans at the time to refurbish
that building and we sought advice as to what we should actually
do. We spoke to our landlord and we actually made remarks in talking
to Bircham Dyson Bell with regards to how we should act appropriately,
so we formed a Petition and obviously tried to start up dialogue
links with Crossrail to discuss how we could possibly come to
some sort of arrangement to ensure that EMI is not adversely affected
by the Crossrail scheme. We had a meeting set up for 16 December
which unfortunately only one member of the Crossrail team attended.
We then subsequently rearranged to have another meeting in the
New Year.
4673. Did you indicate whether that was urgent
or not urgent?
(Mr Tilley) It was urgent because obviously
we had submitted a Petition and we were awaiting an official response,
but we wanted to actually discuss the content of the Petition
with Crossrail to see if they would maybe allay some of our fears
with regards to the impact upon our business, so it was important
that we actually sat down and discussed these matters with them.
With no disrespect to Mr Lawson who actually attended on 16 December,
he was not in a position to actually answer a lot of our questions
which we had at the time, so there was a promise that there would
be various experts drawn in to deal with noise, vibration, et
cetera who would be able to discuss our concerns with us.
4674. Just pausing there, just for the Committee's
benefit, the letter from those instructing me who were acting
for you, Messrs Bircham Dyson Bell, is at tab 9 which recalls
what happened and refers to the meeting of the 19th and seeks
an urgent meeting.[7]
Then what happened?
(Mr Tilley) We arranged via our
lawyers, Bircham Dyson Bell, to attend another meeting with the
representatives from Crossrail.
4675. To meet with the noise experts?
(Mr Tilley) That is correct, at the Crossrail
offices in January, which we turned up for and attended. Unfortunately
we were left sat in a meeting room for approximately 25 minutes
with nobody turning up and in the end a couple of members from
the Crossrail team did turn up and reported that the experts we
needed to speak to would be unable to attend the meeting because
they had another one to attend. At that point I actually made
the decision that we should not actually proceed with the meeting
and that we should rearrange to meet with them to discuss all
of the points that we had concerns over.
4676. So then a fourth meeting was arranged?
(Mr Tilley) No, a third meeting, Mr Jones.
A third meeting was arranged to be held again at the Crossrail
offices. Myself and our Chief Finance Officer, Andy Mollett, were
actually en route to the offices when we received a telephone
call from our lawyers about 20 minutes before we were due to attend
the meeting, cancelling the meeting again because Crossrail were
unable to attend, all of the members of their team were unable
to attend. Then, I believe on 17 February, we actually finally
met with Crossrail at the Bircham Dyson Bell offices and went
through our concerns with them and discussed these at length.
4677. And the Committee will see the position
that we have now reached. Mr Tilley, is there anything you would
like to add at this stage?
(Mr Tilley) I would just like to reiterate
the point that I just want to make sure that people are aware
that EMI Music Publishing have tried to act responsibly as much
as possible to try and safeguard our business and that what we
are asking for is not for the benefit of our business, but it
is to safeguard our business. We will obviously work with whatever
organisation as much as possible. We realise the importance of
the Crossrail scheme, but we also need to safeguard our business
and to ensure that we can operate for the duration of the scheme
and that, with any impact with regards the displacement of our
staff, we cannot just incur those costs and we need to ensure
that we receive some kind of compensation for that because it
will be quite expensive to accommodate nearly 50 per cent of our
organisation to our main headquarters building.
4678. Mr Jones: Thank you very much,
Mr Tilley.
Cross-examined by Mr
Elvin
4679. Mr Elvin: Mr Taylor has some questions
on the noise-specific issues, so he will deal with the noise aspects
and I will deal with some of the more general ones, if that is
convenient. Mr Tilley, are you under the impression that you will
receive no compensation for the costs of having to move to 127
Charing Cross Road, the costs of fitting out those new premises,
the costs of moving your staff
and the costs to your business of being displaced
from Goslett Yard? Is that your understanding?
(Mr Tilley) My understanding is,
as my barrister pointed out in his opening statement, that we
would have to wait until Crossrail actually received Royal Assent
before we actually were in a position to receive any type of compensation.
6 Committee Ref: A56, Petitioner's bundle-Tab 5 refurbishment
design proposals (Morey Smith) (SCN20060321-002). Back
7
Committee Ref: A56, Petitioner's bundle-Tab 9 Correspondence
from Bircham Dyson Bell to CLRL 23 December 2005 (SCN20060321-004). Back
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