Examination of Witnesses (Questions 4680
- 4699)
4680. Yes, in other words, you will get compensation,
but you cannot jump the gun and get compensation before Parliament
and the Queen have signified their assent to the project going
ahead.
(Mr Tilley) I do appreciate that, but also,
as our barrister pointed out, the actual time-frame of three months
which is given to us to accommodate our staff in the building
is totally unworkable. We have 50 staff in there and we have services
that maintain the infrastructure of the company, voice and data,
as well as the recording studio and, as my barrister actually
pointed out, a three-month time period is just totally unworkable.
4681. EMI is a substantial, well-known company.
You have not carried out the conversion works to the basement
at Goslett Yard to upgrade it. You have incurred professional
fees, but you stopped the works at a particular point, did you
not?
(Mr Tilley) I am sorry, if I can just correct
you, there are no refurbishment works to the basement of 12 Goslett
Yard at all.
4682. Well, to whichever part of Goslett Yard
it was. It was not clear.
(Mr Tilley) It was to the first and second
floors of 12 Goslett Yard. The second floor of 12 Goslett Yard,
we were developing a design scheme, as I showed you in the pack,
to improve the decorative and lay-out features of the floor.
4683. The Committee has got the invoices and
I am not going to weary them with going through invoices and the
like, but they are invoices which cover a period at least up until
the end of 2004, possibly early 2005. The Secretary of State announced
the Crossrail Bill in July 2004 and reissued the safeguards directions
at the same time. When did you actually decide to stop spending
money?
(Mr Tilley) When we received notification of
potential compulsory purchase on 12 Goslett Yard from the parliamentary
agents who were acting on behalf of Crossrail.
4684. When was that?
(Mr Tilley) That was 12 February 2005.
4685. You mean you only stopped work when the
Bill was deposited?
(Mr Tilley) We stopped work when we were notified
that 12 Goslett Yard was being considered for potential compulsory
purchase.
4686. Were you aware that the route had been
announced by the Secretary of State in July 2004?
(Mr Tilley) No. We had received various documents
on Crossrail, asking us about our premises within the area which
we completed and sent back.
4687. Had you participated at all in the various
information rounds which had taken place before in the years leading
up to the Secretary of State's announcement and afterwards because
there were big publicity campaigns which I outlined to the Committee
when I opened this case two months ago? Did you participate at
all in those to inform yourself—
(Mr Tilley) I have never actually been involved
in them at all. I had received information from Crossrail, asking
me for details with regards to our premises, but was never actually
notified about these information rounds at all.
4688. These information rounds were public participation
exercises. It is up to those who are affected. There were big
publicity campaigns, the information was there for the asking,
so did you actually ask or were you just waiting for someone to
come up and tell you all about it?
(Mr Tilley) I actually spoke to Crossrail on
several occasions with regard to specifically which buildings
would actually be potentially affected and compulsorily purchased
and even once we were notified about 12 Goslett Yard, even at
that period of time I was enquiring about 127 Charing Cross Road
and I was told that they were unable actually to confirm whether
127 Charing Cross Road at that time would be part of this compulsory
purchase notice, so the information I received from Crossrail
was not particularly specific and we acted accordingly on the
information that was actually given to us at the time, but I received
it on 12 February.
4689. Of course the position, Mr Tilley, as
you well know, is that 127 is not required as such, but the ticket
hall will be in the ground beneath and the eastern ticket hall
will be under those premises, so 127 is not required and that
is where you are decanting your activities from Goslett Yard and
Goslett Yard is required, so the information you were given was
actually accurate.
(Mr Tilley) No, the information I was given
in February was actually relating to 12 Goslett Yard. The information
I received, I do not know if there are records of this, but I
did contact Crossrail on several occasions with regards to 127
and it was not confirmed at that particular time.
4690. So you knew about Goslett Yard and it
is Goslett Yard which you have spoken to in relation to the need
to move your activities. Had you sought information on the information
rounds as to what the likely impact was going to be before you
actually started incurring costs?
(Mr Tilley) I would keep up to date with regards
to Crossrail and the information they would send through to my
business, ie, EMI Music Publishing. I did not actually attend
any of the information rounds or seek any other detailed information
because I was being kept in regular correspondence via the Crossrail
scheme because I was furnishing them with information with regards
to our buildings.
4691. So you knew the likelihood was that at
least some of your property would be affected in that location?
(Mr Tilley) No.
4692. So you were giving them information, but
you were not assuming that you were going to be affected?
(Mr Tilley) They were asking us for information
with regards to our property within the area and I gave them information
with regards to all three of our properties and at that time there
was no indication from Crossrail whether or not any particular
property would actually be affected and it was only once I received
notification on 12 February 2005 that it was actually stipulated
that 12 Goslett Yard would be potentially compulsorily purchased
as part of the scheme.
4693. So would it be fair to put it this way:
that you knew there was publicity and information rounds, you
knew Crossrail was asking you about your various properties, but
you did not ask Crossrail whether or not it was prudent to go
ahead with works, whether there was a likelihood that, say, Goslett
Yard would be affected before you started those works? You did
not ask that question?
(Mr Tilley) As I said to you, I did actually
contact Crossrail and I spoke to them and they said that they
were unable to confirm at the time. As I said to you, I actually
was enquiring about 127 Charing Cross Road and they could not
confirm at the time. They said that the scheme was being changed
all the time and it was just not possible. EMI Music Publishing
would not have embarked on committing this amount of money to
a refurbishment scheme had we known that there was a possibility
that one of our buildings was actually going to be taken away
from us in effect.
4694. Were you aware that the general location
of the proposed Crossrail tracks and the proposed station was
planned for Tottenham Court Road?
(Mr Tilley) Yes, I was aware that there were
works required within Tottenham Court Road, but if you look at
the drawing at the moment there is a fine line of Goslett Yard
with one building that is going to be affected and one that is
not, so at the time it was impossible, as far as I was aware,
to actually put a line as to which of our premises were actually
going to be drastically affected by the works and which were not.
4695. Mr Binley: If I may make a comment,
as I understand it, the Petitioner is not obliged to do anything,
and most would not know what Crossrail was going to do, until
they are given the local notice. That is what I am informed and
I understand the point that I think you are trying to make, but
I think we have understood that as a committee.
4696. Mr Elvin: Well, I will move on,
if that is the case. Mr Jones raised a point on environmental
impact assessment this morning. I have just checked your Petition
again, but can I have your confirmation that you have not raised
this point in your Petition?
(Mr Tilley) I would need to check that in the
actual Petition itself.
4697. Mr Binley: I think the Committee
would really like to ask any questions which they may have on
the compensation element to the witness; that would help the Committee.
I certainly have some, but I just wonder if the Committee have
any questions on the compensation at this stage.
4698. Mr Elvin: I was going to proceed
to ask some further compensation questions, but if the Committee
would prefer—
4699. Mr Binley: Okay, please carry on. I am
happy with that.
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