Examination of Witnesses (Questions 5940
- 5959)
5940. Just briefly on the issue of benefits
to Shenfield, we have drawn up a quick note on the benefits to
Shenfield specifically of Crossrail, and I would like to run through
those with you.
The Committee suspended from 2.45 pm until
3.10 pm for a division
5941. Ms Lieven: Mr Boyton, can we just
very quickly go to the advantages and benefits to Shenfield, and
I just use this note as an aide memoir to speed things up. Can
we agree that the fast trains to London are not affected by Crossrail?
(Mr Boyton) We can agree that; of course they
are not affected by the existing service.
5942. Secondly, there will be a greater frequency
of service to the intermediate stations between Shenfield and
Liverpool Street?
(Mr Boyton) Yes, that is
so.
5943. Thirdly, for those people who do choose
to travel beyond Liverpool Street they will now be able to take
a fast train and change at Stratford or Liverpool Street.
(Mr Cork) Yes.
5944. And get on to Crossrail.
(Mr Boyton) Yes.
5945. They will also be able to take the Crossrail
stopping train all the way through to their final destinations
if they need Tottenham Court Road, for instance, or Paddington?
(Mr Boyton) If they are the ones that are served
by the Crossrail train. As I have said previously in my witness
statement it is more likely that people will take the fast train
service to Stratford rather than get the slow train into Stratford
and Crossrail.
5946. The people who are travelling to Heathrow
will now be able to take the Crossrail train and either change
on the same platform in effect—for instance get off at Tottenham
Court Road and wait for the Heathrow train—or, depending
on the operator, take the direct train straight through to Heathrow.
(Mr Boyton) Yes.
5947. A relatively small point, but for people
who are carrying heavy luggage it is quite an advantage not having
to get out at Liverpool Street, go down into the Underground,
go off to Paddington and then change again on to the Heathrow
Express, is it not?
(Mr Boyton) That is so as long as they can
get on the Crossrail train at Brentwood in the first place because
of the access problems.
5948. Let us concentrate on Shenfield. Shenfield
is fully accessible for people with mobility restrictions at the
present time.
(Mr Boyton) It is.
5949. And the fourth advantage set out there
is that there will be a reduction in crowding and congestion,
not so much when people get on the train to Shenfield because
I assume they are not very crowded, but particularly for the journeys
coming out from Liverpool Street where there will be a very significant
reduction in congestion.
(Mr Boyton) Yes, I would agree, and the point
we were making that the benefits are increased the further you
get into London.
5950. Do not let us worry about Brentwood because
I do not think that is the focus of your Petition, but in the
judgment as to whether Crossrail should go to Shenfield. First
of all, it is inappropriate for the Committee to take into account
that if the trains were to terminate somewhere other than Shenfield
on the northeast limb—it does not matter whether it was
Stratford, Romford or Gidea Park—then there would be a disadvantage
for passengers in the intermediate stations. So, for example,
at Brentwood and Gidea Park and Harold Wood.
(Mr Boyton) It would clearly need to be some
other service providing a rail service to those stations.
5951. You have rather approached the matter
in your evidence-in-chief to say that there is no advantage to
the people of Shenfield so the trains should not go to Shenfield—that
is what I would describe as a "Passport to Pimlico"
approach to rail training. It is very appropriate for the Committee
to take into account the disadvantages of not going to Shenfield
to people who live outside Shenfield, is it not?
(Mr Boyton) Of course, and it was not quite
the fact that we were saying they should not go to Shenfield because
there is no advantage for the people of Shenfield. What we are
saying is there is not a clear analysis of why Shenfield was chosen,
and if it does go to Shenfield then, clearly, we would wish that
the harm that is created by the construction of the railway is
mitigated as fully as it possibly can be.
5952. Ms Lieven: Yes, of course we understand
that latter point.
5953. Chairman: Ms Lieven, can you give
that document a P number, for the record.
5954. Ms Lieven: Seventy-one, sir. [27]
Finally, Mr Boyton, it is also appropriate for the Committee to
consider not just the disadvantages of not going to Shenfield
for those intermediate stations but to consider the wider strategic
benefits set out in the Environmental Statement of having a northeast
limb, in particular, as an example, the reduction in overcrowding
on the Central Line.
(Mr Boyton) Yes, and we acknowledge
that there are those sort of advantages from Crossrail in Central
London.
5955. Ms Lieven: I will leave it there,
sir, and other points can be dealt with by Mr Berryman in evidence-in-chief,
if that is acceptable.
Re-examined by Mr Stoker
5956. Mr Stoker: As I understand it,
the fast trains to London are unaffected and you said that the
existing service does not do that—the existing Metro level
does not have an impact.
(Mr Boyton) That is correct. A no change situation
to Metro or Crossrail.
5957. Greater frequency. All I can find in the
note is a suggestion of 12 trains per hour as compared to seven
trains per hour. Do you see that as a significant improvement?
(Mr Boyton) There obviously is a more frequent
service being provided by Crossrail. Whether that is a significant
improvement, clearly many people who either live or work around
the Shenfield area do not see that as being a benefit which outweighs
their concerns about the disadvantages. Again, one would have
to say that if Crossrail were not going ahead would there at some
stage in the future be an improvement of the existing Metro service
by the existing franchiser or somebody else.
5958. Jumping down to 4, reduction in crowding
and congestion, we saw the figure for Shenfield in terms of growth
of passengers, 3 per cent in 100 people quantified there. So the
reduction in crowding and congestion is taking place where, in
your judgment?
(Mr Boyton) In my judgment the benefits of
reduction in crowding and congestion are being felt either in
Central London or certainly those stations closer into London.
5959. Can I ask for the tube map to be put up?[28]
If you would scan down A, B and C and compare these to what you
can do already by taking a fast train to Stratford. As I understand
it if one goes to Stratford you can access the Jubilee Line and
also the Central Line.
(Mr Boyton) And the Docklands
Light Railway.
27 Crossrail Ref: P71, Crossrail Benefits Shenfield
Brentwood List (SCN20060329-005). Back
28
Tube Map (LUL) Existing Tube Lines/System (SCN20060329-006). Back
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