Select Committee on Crossrail Bill Minutes of Evidence


Examination of Witnesses (Questions 7400 - 7419)

  7400. And the modifications to the station here proposed are going to be carried forward over a number of years, is that right?
  (Mr Berryman) It will take a couple of years at least, yes.

  7401. Two years at least, and those two years at least, will they involve some disruption to services?
  (Mr Berryman) Quite minimal. One of the main objects of the design as it has evolved has been to minimise the number of possessions required.

  7402. But there will be some disruption to services?
  (Mr Berryman) I would not like to say that there will be none, but it will certainly be very limited.

  7403. You will seek to limit as much as you possibly can the disruption to services consequential upon Romford Station?
  (Mr Berryman) That is right. Can I go back to the point about disruption which may be caused by building a pedestrian tunnel, as you call it? It will be necessary in this kind of material to form that from the surface as we would not be allowed to tunnel through that abutment.

  7404. We do not know precisely what type of material it is, do we?
  (Mr Berryman) We know it is something solid and we know it has been there since Victorian times. We would not be allowed to tunnel through it.

  7405. Unless we worked out what it was, but we do not know what it is yet, do we?
  (Mr Berryman) We know it is something solid.

  7406. We know it is something solid, but, beyond that, we are in the dark.
  (Mr Berryman) Well, yes, except that we know it is something solid.

  7407. Can I just ask one or two questions by reference to photograph 23, for Havering please.[47] The present intention of Crossrail is that, whatever happens, you are going to close down that access that we can presently see on that photograph?

  (Mr Berryman) Certainly we are going to close that access when we rebuild the station and provide step-free access by other means.

  7408. And that step-free access, to attain that, to get to there from the bus station is going to require whoever needs it to go along the pavement in front of the station and then the added distance to the new station entrance?
  (Mr Berryman) That is correct, but, as I have already pointed out, that ramp is in any event not compliant with standards for MIP access and if we were to rebuild the station, as we intend to, we will be required, as I think you know, to rebuild that ramp in any event and it would not be possible to have it there as there is not enough space.

  7409. Has it been investigated whether using some further process, a zig-zag or something of that character, one could achieve the gradients which you say are desirable?
  (Mr Berryman) Well, they are not just desirable because they are set down by standards. Of course a zig-zag would be possible, but that would require taking more land in the bus station area and obstructing access around those buildings and you can see that.

  7410. Has that been a matter of consideration?
  (Mr Berryman) We have done sketches of that, yes, but, as I say, the need for that goes away because the MIP access will be provided by lifts and far more satisfactory arrangements.

  7411. Help us on one final matter, the pavement in front of the station, as proposed by Crossrail, what is the width of that going to be compared with the pavement in front of the entrances as they presently are configured ?
  (Mr Berryman) I am afraid I do not know the answer to that question. As I have said earlier on in evidence, we would be very happy to work with the borough to come to an appropriate solution for wider footpaths and improvements to make this passageway much better.

  7412. I can leave matters there, thank you very much.

  7413. Chairman: Can you elaborate on why Network Rail is insisting on having this other section where they may wish to use it. You referred a little bit earlier to a portion of the other side of the station where Network Rail are saying they may wish to have access to for safety reasons.
  (Mr Berryman) As part of the Crossrail works we are providing MIP access to the Crossrail platforms and part of that will make use of that mezzanine walkway which is what emerges from that grey opening in the photograph there. We are not intending, as part of our scheme, to provide MIP access to all the Network Rail lines which are used by the mainline trains, however, we are making passive provision in our design so that when this comes up on the Network Rail Access For All Process they will be able to provide a lift from that point up to the platform. The platform is behind the wall in that picture. There are two different colours of brick. There is an older blue brick, which is the bottom section, the Victorian structure, and then there is the yellow brick above it, the London stock brick which is the back wall of the platform for that side of the station. The idea would be that you could put a lift up approximately where the door is up to the height of the platform and have another hole knocked in that wall there.

  7414. Chairman: You are an engineer, it is not beyond the realms of the imagination to have thought to bring both the ideas of providing this access and of course an entrance and exit? Could you not do the two together, albeit at the end of the design stages?
  (Mr Berryman) Do you mean the access from the ramp which is shown there?

  7415. Chairman: Yes. I tell you why I say that, I see that as a solution. You have got Network Rail with lines being used and Network Rail want the access, you are building a brand new station and everything else. What concerns me is the way things are at the moment, albeit brand new, disabled people cannot go right the way around the building. It seems to be that the end gain is that these are the people you should be serving rather than people who are already getting the cheaper lines there, the business and are getting the extra access. I think if that little bit is being kept aside to do for the future, why can it not be incorporated in the thinking for people who are disabled or need access to the station.
  (Mr Berryman) As I say, the ramp that is there is substandard, it certainly would not be able to be kept like that. It would need to be rebuilt as a zigzag as the council suggested.

  7416. Chairman: I am asking that because it is not just around the building, it is inside, the lift and things. One thing that puzzles me, what happens if there is a fire or a security issue and disabled people are in there? If there is only that then there is a difficulty. Can you elaborate on that?
  (Mr Berryman) It is the same as any other building which is equipped for MIP access. A contingency plan has to be drawn up for what will happen to people who cannot use lifts. Of course this is a big issue with our underground stations and much less of an issue here because the prospects of a fire and the extent of damage that that might cause are much easier to manage. Normally the solution would be to take people away to a place of immediate safety.

  7417. Chairman: If you have an exit people would rely totally upon that which would help in that process, in that place of safety and route.
  (Mr Berryman) It would do to an extent but people still have to get from that area. There is a two-stage process to get down to ground level, you have got the mezzanine floor there.

  7418. Chairman: I can accept your difficulty about entering into ticket halls and all the rest of it, but when an engineer can design everything else, companies that are working alongside the Department, but they make disabled and old people walk around the building, I find great difficulty in understanding that.
  (Mr Berryman) The other thing to bear in mind is that exit is not normally open, you have to push a bell and someone has to come and let you in. I have only tried it once and contrary to Mr Thompson's experience, nobody came.

  7419. Chairman: When design is undertaken these things will be incorporated in any future solution.
  (Mr Berryman) Yes, but it is a management and manning issue for the station.


47   Committee Ref: A82, Photograph of route between station and bus interchange (HAVGLB-14705-075). Back


 
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