Examination of Witnesses (Questions 7600
- 7619)
7600. Then beyond that we can see typical high-rise
blocks of flats.
(Mr McCollum): Yes, those were the first high-rise
flats built in Woolwich in the 1960s.
7601. Then at the time of this photograph we
can see the Dome and we can also see the Greenwich Peninsula to
a substantial extent undeveloped at that time.
(Mr McCollum): That is correct.
7602. Can you return to your proof of evidence
and read from 1.3 please.
(Mr McCollum): In the early part of the 20th
Century, the Greenwich waterfront, which centred around Woolwich,
was one of the great manufacturing workshops of the world, at
its peak providing 150,000 industrial and manufacturing jobs along
the 8½ miles of riverfront. Following the Second World War,
this manufacturing base, which underpinned the economy of south-east
London, totally collapsed. Greenwich suffered a fall in employment
worse than any other London borough. It entered a steep spiral
of decline and by the early 1990s the number of industrial jobs
had fallen from 150,000 to 6,000, so over 140,000 jobs had been
lost, 80,000 of those in a single factory in Woolwich. Woolwich,
with the Royal Arsenal at its centre and as a main contributor
to its economic and social vibrancy, was particularly affected.
On the main social-economic indicators of deprivation of unemployment,
income, health and skills, Woolwich compared very unfavourably
with the rest of London. Male unemployment in 1992 in Woolwich
reached 60 per cent. The Royal Arsenal finally ceased to function
in 1993. Woolwich, although a riverside town, had effectively
been cut off from the river by the Royal Arsenal site which had
now become redundant. By now the area overall had been left with
a legacy of 1,100 acres of contaminated land, more at that time
than in either Newham or Tower Hamlets. An additional and significant
contributory factor for the failure in vitality and success of
Woolwich has been the proportion and type of social housing in
the area. This housing was largely built in the 1960s and 1970s
by the Council and it suffers from the problems of bad planning
and bad design indicative of this type of development of the time.
Social housing still makes up a disproportionately large part
of the housing stock in the residential areas around Woolwich.
Woolwich still has three wards among the most deprived wards in
the country, that is, three wards in the 10 per cent most deprived
wards and two wards in the nation's 5 per cent most deprived wards.
Woolwich is the major riverside town centre in the Thames Gateway
of London, yet the reasons which underlay its original settlement
which flow from the topography and geography of the area still
hold true today. Since the 1990s the decline of the town centre
has been checked and the regeneration of the Royal Arsenal is
slowly progressing. The town is now at a significant stage in
its history in terms of its own development and regional contribution
as it pursues a post-industrial identity as the premier town of
the Thames Gateway London south. For over ten years the Council
has orchestrated one of the largest regeneration programmes in
the land across north Greenwich as a whole. Vast areas of derelict
land have been remediated and are now the focus for new investment
and development. The economic decline of past decades has been
halted and the foundations for a new economic base are in place.
The Greenwich Waterfront Partnership, which was created in the
1990s, and other local partnerships were created to bring together
the Council, local community and businesses to develop a joint
approach to bringing investment through government funding streams
and to attract private investors to the borough. Greenwich has
secured government funding, including Single Regeneration Budget,
Neighbourhood Renewal, and significant European funds to take
forward both social and physical regeneration. The borough is
now attracting a significant level of private sector inward investment
and is seeing record housing development. In 2004 Greenwich has
more new residential planning approvals than Lewisham, Southwark,
Lambeth and Wandsworth put together. The potential for development
is vast. It has major sites close to central London. This potential
is wholly dependent on continuing improvements to the infrastructure.
7603. We can move to slide 3 and I think there
are matters you particularly wish to draw attention to on this
slide, Mr McCollum.[24]
(Mr McCollum): That is a plan
really of Woolwich which we have already seen several times this
morning. That plan of Woolwich, the areas set out in pink colouring,
shows all those areas of Woolwich that are subject to redevelopment,
but have become redundant, which are about to be, are in the process
of, or will be in the future, subject to redevelopment. This is
merely to emphasise what I have been saying about the complete
decline of the town centre, its reason for being and the whole
redevelopment that needs to take place, some of which in the northern
part of the Royal Arsenal is taking place, but very little of
which has taken place in the bottom two thirds of that plan.
7604. Just to relate the plan to what we have
seen already, the Royal Arsenal is the largest single block of
pink, is it not, in the top right-hand corner?
(Mr McCollum): Yes, that is right, along the
river.
7605. We can see what is obviously the pier
of the ferry in the top left-hand corner and the A206, the main
road from the Blackwall Tunnel eastwards immediately to the south
of the Woolwich Arsenal.
(Mr McCollum): Yes, the highway there and at
the top left-hand corner of the picture there is a big roundabout.
That is the roundabout at which the South Circular meets the North
Thames Express Route which carries on there in a slightly circuitous
route, travelling east towards the M25.
7606. Return to your proof please, paragraph
1.11.
(Mr McCollum): Much of the borough's development
is on brownfield sites along the riverfront. The Greenwich Peninsula,
with up to 14,000 homes planned and a state-of-the-art entertainment
centre, is the largest of these developments. It was brought forward
by the Jubilee Line extension to North Greenwich in 1999. In Woolwich
the development of the Royal Arsenal will provide over 4,000 dwellings
as part of a mixed-use development. This will include entertainment,
leisure and community facilities. It is close to Woolwich town
centre, but separated by a major highway and very little development
has taken place in the town itself, yet much of Woolwich is available
for development, as we can see. Key to the success of development
is the integration of the physical and social infrastructure.
The most critical of these is transport and the largest single
factor will be a Crossrail station in Woolwich. So as to further
the regeneration of Woolwich, building on the Royal Arsenal development,
the Council has, with support from the Office of the Deputy Prime
Minister and the London Development Agency, established the Woolwich
Regeneration Agency as the local delivery vehicle for this part
of the Thames Gateway. Berkeley Homes, Tilfen Land and Powis Street
Estates represent the private sector on the Board of the Agency.
The Docklands Light Railway is also a Board member. The Woolwich
Regeneration Agency will oversee and co-ordinate the continued
regeneration of Woolwich. Its range of partners will provide the
required mix of public and private sector skills to address the
regeneration challenges faced by Woolwich. Woolwich, as an historic
town centre, has begun to undergo major change and significant
development. Whilst some of this development is confirmed and
under way, the impact of Crossrail will add hugely to this development
potential. Key development opportunities are provided by: firstly,
plans for a major new town centre development in Woolwich, involving
the provision of a new civic office and 10,000 square metres of
retail, a Tesco store, up to 1,000 new homes and a new public
library; secondly, the development of a key part of the high street
with the provision of 25,000 square metres of commercial, retail
and residential development; thirdly, the potential for significant
mixed-use development around the new DLR station at Woolwich;
and, fourthly, addressing the impact of poor and over-concentrated
social housing through the demolition and redevelopment of a large
part of the town's housing estates.
7607. We can move to figure 4.[25]
(Mr McCollum): None of those developments
is yet committed or secured. The combined total of planned developments
will provide significant impact on the Thames Gateway agenda over
the next 20 years. The scale of development outlined above is
not certain and much of it remains fragile and sensitive to local,
regional and national markets. The developments already taking
place and the overall ambition for the area require, and deserve,
a regional transport infrastructure which adds economic viability
and vibrancy. The DLR at Woolwich is welcome and will provide
an important transport link on a local basis, as will the Greenwich
Waterfront Transit.
7608. If we can just pause there, first of all,
as far as DLR is concerned, obviously Mr Chard will deal with
it in detail, but will it provide anything like the service that
a Crossrail station at Woolwich will provide?[26]
(Mr McCollum): It is quite a different
service. Perhaps I can describe some of the residential development
which is taking place at Woolwich which is the primary town centre
in this part of south-east London. There are major employment
opportunities being created, not so much now south of the river,
although some, but particularly at the Isle of Dogs and Canary
Wharf. The DLR from Woolwich to Canary Wharf will take about 35
minutes, whereas Crossrail from Woolwich to Canary Wharf would
take about eight minutes, so we believe that illustrates a substantial
difference of nature between a highly valued, local transport
system, which is the DLR. It will hugely improve and change our
links with Newham, with the Royal Docks, with London City Airport
and with the DLR system as a whole, but the DLR is a light-rail
system and it is a slow system. Here what we are talking about
is the ability to carry large numbers of people quickly into the
London travel-to-work area which has historically been Woolwich's
problem, that it has been a local industrial area, which was not
a problem as long as that was viable, but as soon as that stopped
being viable, the fact that it was not in the London travel-to-work
area became a complete issue for us.
7609. As I say, Mr Chard will deal with the
details about the Greenwich Waterfront Transit, but, from your
perspective, how does the Greenwich Waterfront Transit compare
with Crossrail?
(Mr McCollum): As I have described, the Greenwich
Waterfront Transit will be a highly valued, local service. It
largely has a different route, but the Waterfront Transit system,
which is an intermediate mode, known as a bus, it is a bus route
that will link Woolwich with North Greenwich Station. It is called
an `intermediate mode' rather than a bus, although I think people
in Woolwich would tend to think of it as a bus because in certain
places it has got a dedicated route, but it is a bus service.
It will carry people to North Greenwich Station. The people at
the North Greenwich Station can then get on to the Jubilee Line
and go to Canary Wharf which again will take about 35 minutes,
so again it is a very valued local transport system. Greenwich
has negotiated funding into it, has very much supported it and
continues to do so, but it is not a strategic London-wide system
which will put this major town of south-east London on to that
London map.
7610. If you could return to your proof, we
are at the very last line of page 4.
(Mr McCollum): The Crossrail Station at the
heart of Woolwich would reinforce the town as the regional hub
for this part of south-east London. Failure so to provide will
create ambiguity and potentially market uncertainty. The Council
and its partners are committed to transforming Woolwich into a
place that meets the aspirations of the Sustainable Communities
Plan, integrating the existing communities with the new and addressing
the deprivation and social inequality that currently characterise
large parts of the town. Our track record at Greenwich Peninsula,
the Royal Arsenal and the estate renewal of the 1,900-home Ferrier
Estate at Kidbrooke, which is being demolished and rebuilt with
4,500 dwellings, demonstrate that we have the skills and resources
to further these aspirations. The Council is fully supportive
of the Crossrail project. It recognises that it will provide a
huge step change necessary for the regeneration of the Thames
Gateway. We believe that a Crossrail link south of the river is
an essential element of the scheme. It would be perverse, in our
view, if the only town centre on the Crossrail route south of
the river did not have a station if, as is proposed, trains went
through the town without stopping. When the Council was advised
that the Woolwich station had been removed from the scheme, there
was unanimous all-party support to lobby for this decision to
be reviewed and reversed. You will see from our evidence that
there is large public and business support for our Petition.
7611. We move to figure 5 please.[27]
(Mr McCollum): I have described
how, before the Crossrail Bill was deposited, the Council took
steps to address serious economic and social decline in Woolwich
and the surrounding area. The evidence we will put to you builds
on that aspiration. A Crossrail station at Woolwich will cement
the nascent, but fragile regeneration of this part of south-east
London. Woolwich is the natural central place for the sub-region.
It is the centre of commerce and of the whole sub-regional transport
network. It has the potential to make a huge contribution to the
Gateway and to the prosperity of London and the nation.
7612. Mr McCollum, I wonder if you could now
deal with some of the documents we received yesterday afternoon
from the Promoter, and we move to the Promoter's exhibit H3 please,
which is three slides relating to the Greenwich Peninsula.[28]
We can see in the first one the Greenwich Peninsula before redevelopment
on it took place. Then, if we could move to page 2, we can see
the Dome and some new roads and then, finally, perhaps we could
move to page 21, which is the future proposals for the Greenwich
Peninsula.[29]
Firstly, Mr McCollum, have you been involved with the development
of the Greenwich Peninsula since 1990?
(Mr McCollum): I have, yes. I
have been very closely involved with the development since 1990.
7613. Can we deal with the change in terms of
numbers of dwellings that have been intended for the Greenwich
Peninsula as that scheme has progressed?
(Mr McCollum): When we were campaigning for
the station at North Greenwich, which was finally agreed in 1994,
but which had been prior to that time dropped from the proposals
for the extension of the Jubilee Line, it would go through North
Greenwich and a station box would be developed underground, but
the station would not be fitted out. Now, it was clear to us that
this was the key to developing the Greenwich Peninsula, so we
campaigned very hard for it. When that development was agreed,
there were plans at that time, and I spent the next two years
discussing with British Gas plans for the development of, as it
was earlier, 1,000 dwellings and in fact it is 3,000 dwellings
on the Greenwich Peninsula.
7614. Yes, I must correct my opening in respect
of that. That is the problem with taking instructions on materials
that have just been received. My instructions are that it is 3,000,
not 1,000.
(Mr McCollum): At that time a planning application
was submitted by British Gas for 3,000 dwellings and indeed we
were certainly minded to approve of that proposal and, as the
development proceeded, as the station has proceeded, in fact those
early expectations and aspirations, although we realised it was
the key to success, were greatly understated and today there is
approved planning permission for about 14,000 dwellings on the
Greenwich Peninsula which is a huge rise and it is a lot of people,
but that is what happened. The aspiration at that time was that
there would be a business district and there would be an entertainment
centre of some sort and there would be residential development
of 3,000. Now, there is an entertainment centre of some sort,
which is the Arena which will open next year—
7615. The Arena is of course the Dome?
(Mr McCollum): Yes, it is now the O2, but the
Dome to all of us in Greenwich, with the 26,000-capacity Arena
which will open early next year, so there is an entertainment
centre, and there is a central business district, but the 3,000
dwellings have moved to 14,000.
7616. In terms of how much money has been received
from the public purse for these dwellings, what was the original
estimate of valued planning obligations when North Greenwich was
being discussed?
(Mr McCollum): The original estimate of planning
obligations at that time when we were first discussing the British
Gas planning application, which was made immediately following
the decision on North Greenwich Station, was that there would
be 20 per cent affordable housing rising to 25 per cent in terms
of floor area with financial contributions, which were never finalised,
but were expected to be of the order of £5 million overall.
Now, the planning permission for just part of the site, because,
if I can just address the picture for a moment, if you were to
slice Greenwich Peninsula, moving from left to right, about a
third of the way along, which would more or less take you through
the gasometer which is right in the middle of the Peninsula there,
that is the remaining vestige of what was once the biggest gas
works in Europe. If you take all of that to the left of that so
that the site is divided into two parts, the bit to the left of
that is what is called the `Millennium Village' and the bit to
the right of that is what is called the `MDL development', the
Meridian Delta Limited development or sometimes more simply known
as the `Lendlease development' because Lendlease is the biggest
developer partner in that. Although we were talking about 25 per
cent housing and about £5 million of financial contribution,
there are two or three planning agreements which have been agreed
for the Millennium Village part, which is to the left, and the
planning obligations are attached to that, and I do not have those
in front of me, but the right-hand part of it, the planning obligation
planning agreement which was signed allowing the issue of planning
permission last year between the Council and MDL provided for
38 per cent affordable housing and a financial contribution in
addition to that of £104 million. Therefore, again we knew
it was the right thing to do and we put levels on what we thought
would be achieved back in 1994, but practice has shown that in
actual fact the levels have become far higher. Of that £104
million of financial contribution, £40 million has been contributed
to public transport arising from the MDL development of the Greenwich
Peninsula.
7617. So this Council overstates its case, according
to the Promoter. At the North Greenwich Station it was anticipating
3,000 and it is now 14,000 and it was anticipating £3 million
contribution to the public sector and it is now £104 million
and two thirds of the site only. In terms of the Greenwich Peninsula,
how important has the presence of the North Greenwich Station
been here?
(Mr McCollum): The development of the North
Greenwich Station, we knew it was the key. Well, there were two
keys. I say it was the key, but there was a second key, there
were two keys. First, the land had to be remediated because it
was a contaminated site and it is now a remediated site. In 1994
when it was still a contaminated site, what is more, it had no
transport. There were two big outcomes which the Council sought.
The first was remediation of the site and the second was to secure
a station at North Greenwich. Working with its partners, British
Gas and others were subsequently successful in that. That was
what allowed the development of the Greenwich Peninsula to proceed.
It has to be the case that, if that had not happened, the station
development around this part of east London would have meant that
eventually it would have got developed. That has to be so. It
is inconceivable though to me, having been closely involved through
all that time, that it would have been remediated in anything
like that timescale and it is inconceivable to me, because as,
Director of Strategic Planning, we would not have permitted it,
for the development to have proceeded at that intensity. The North
Greenwich Station is the biggest single event. In the last 20-year
history of the regeneration of Greenwich, the North Greenwich
Station was the biggest single event, not the Docklands Light
Railway to the Greenwich town centre, although that was important,
but it was the North Greenwich Station that facilitated this development.
Without that, there is no way there would be 14,000 dwellings
going on to this site because there simply would not have been
the capacity to move people on and off it. Of course the other
factor is that, with the station there, it immediately stimulated
the interest of the developers. When I took people around the
Greenwich Peninsula in the early 1990s, when it was a contaminated,
empty site, I took developers around there and they sort of looked
sadly at us and said, "You will go nowhere until you have
got remediation and a fast and capable transport system",
and that is exactly what happened.
7618. I am going to move to your conclusions,
Mr McCollum, and I think, in conclusion, you wanted to briefly
point out what you consider to be the five key messages of your
case.
(Mr McCollum): Yes, I have summarised my particular
contribution to this down to five key points that I hope will
be helpful. The first of these is the pivotal position of Woolwich.
It is the natural place of the Thames Gateway London South, it
is the only town centre in the Thames Gateway London South on
the river and it is the major riverside town of the Thames Gateway.
There are very few town centres anywhere in the Thames Gateway
that are on the river. Actually it is a river which tended to
flood, but Woolwich did not because it is on high ground, so it
is a pivotal position which is the natural central place. Secondly,
there has been a catastrophic decline of industry in Woolwich.
That case is clear and there is no dispute about that. There is
an overwhelming case for the town's regeneration, but regeneration
on a major scale. I repeat that there has been 60 per cent male
unemployment in 1992/93 in Woolwich with a large population, and
major measures are needed. Thirdly, some progress has been made,
but really no progress in the main town centre south of that main
dual-carriageway we have looked at. It has been largely confined
to the Royal Arsenal, which is a nice new riverside site, separated
from the town centre by a six-lane highway. The major development
in Woolwich town centre itself is still very uncertain. Fourthly,
there is a need for major renewal of the large areas of social
housing which surround Woolwich. This is dependent on the land
values that Crossrail will bring. The fifth is that the railway
goes through the town, under the town without stopping at the
moment and the view in Woolwich is that that is a perverse thing
to do for the main town centre when there is so much potential
benefit to be secured.
7619. Thank you, Mr McCollum. Sir, I do not
know if this is a convenient time, given your earlier indication.
24 Committee Ref: A84, Plan of Woolwich (GRCHLB-3605-427). Back
25
Committee Ref: A84, Greenwich town centre development (GRCHLB-3605-428). Back
26
Committee Ref: A84, Aerial Photo of DLR Station & Cross Rail
Station Sites-Proposal (GRCHLB-3605-429). Back
27
Committee Ref: A84, Greenwich town centre development (GRCHLB-3605-430). Back
28
Crossrail Ref: P77, Aerial image of Greenwich Peninsula before
1996 (GRCHLB-3604-003). Back
29
Crossrail Ref: P77, Aerial image of Greenwich Peninsula in 2000
(GRCHLB-3604-002) and Proposed Layout of Greenwich Peninsula (GRCHLB-3604-021). Back
|
