Examination of Witnesses (Questions 8140
- 8159)
8140. In terms of the appraisal of the benefits
of Crossrail you have already said that BCRs were not done for
individual stations. How does the appraisal process for a major
infrastructure project like this look at the value for money issue?
How are the regeneration issues looked at?
(Mr Anderson) The value for money issue is
looked at through the benefit cost ratio benefit of the project
as a whole.
8141. Yes, but how is the project divided up
for that purpose?
(Mr Anderson) It will be divided up into the
various sections, and I think Montague went through a number of
these sections individually and reported on the value for money
that would be attracted by each of them. There is then a further
analysis on the regeneration and jobs effects and they would all
come together in the appraisal.
8142. Why are stations not appraised individually?
(Mr Anderson) Clearly a station on its own
is of little use; it is part of an integrated network and it tends
to be those self-contained sections of the network and the project
that we appraise. That is the approach that we took and it is
the approach that Montague took as well.
8143. So focusing on Woolwich, in terms of its
BCR, would that be consistent with the appraisal which Montague
carried out for the project as a whole?
(Mr Anderson) Yes, I believe it would.
8144. What I would like to ask you about, again
with the intention of giving the Committee a further insight into
the assessment process, is the question that you mentioned of
linking into the network. How important—let us take two
stations as an example, let us take Whitechapel and Bond Street—for
example is Whitechapel in terms of interchange and why?
(Mr Anderson) I think Whitechapel is probably
one of the most important stations on the Crossrail network in
terms of interchange. I think that is illustrated by the transport
map that we were looking at earlier. It provides connections into
the District Line, the Metropolitan Line and, importantly, the
newly extended East London line. Certainly the forecast that we
prepared for the railway indicated that there would be a very
high desire to change to and from Crossrail at that location.
For example, if you were travelling from the east of Crossrail
and wanted to go to the south of the City you might change at
Whitechapel rather than go to Liverpool Street. Similarly if you
are travelling from south of the river on the extended East London
line you can change at Whitechapel to join Crossrail to access
Liverpool Street and the surrounding area.
8145. In terms of that integration approach,
how would Woolwich compare?
(Mr Anderson) Clearly Woolwich does not provide
an interchange.
8146. Can I ask about Bond Street as another
potential comparison? What would happen, for example, if Bond
Street were taken out of the Crossrail programme? It is a cost
at a significant level—similar, you said earlier. Why can
you not just take Bond Street out? What significance would that
have?
(Mr Anderson) I think this is something that
I have discussed with the Committee on a previous occasion, I
think when we were looking at the Mayfair area. Clearly Bond Street
is the principle West End destination for Crossrail, so it is
serving that very high value, high employment area in the West
End. Clearly also it does provide significant interchange. We
know that one of the things that Crossrail does for the transport
network is to meet the Central Line, clearly by serving Bond Street.
So we can serve directly and more quickly the area around Bond
Street. Additionally, if Bond Street was not there we would immediately
get a larger load on the GLC stations, particularly Tottenham
Court Road, which is something that we would have to look at very
carefully.
8147. The Committee raised with you what about
the possibility of reducing the service on the Great Eastern side—that
is the Metro service from Shenfield. In terms of the stations
that are being served on the Great Eastern line, to what extent
is it necessary to intervene greatly in the existing stations
in order to accommodate Crossrail?
(Mr Anderson) We do need to rebuild parts of
the station to accommodate the line that would arise from Crossrail.
There are several locations where that is necessary.
8148. In comparative terms with a build such
as Woolwich, how do the Great Eastern stations compare?
(Mr Anderson) Clearly it is much smaller as
they are all above ground.
8149. Can I ask you a point that Mr Hopkins
raised with you on the costs of the Woolwich station? Have those
costs been analysed critically to drive them down from previous
estimates?
(Mr Anderson) Yes, I have indicated that they
have; that is the case.
8150. I appreciate that the Committee wants
to see how it is broken down, and we will provide that breakdown
to the Committee—and I appreciate that it does not bind
the Committee in any way—but those driven down costs were
discussed with Greenwich and are not disputed?
(Mr Anderson) That is correct.
8151. So that the Committee will have this when
they look at those costs, have those costs had the input of technical
experts, quantity surveyors and the like, so that we have a reasonable
degree of assurance as to their scope?
(Mr Anderson) Yes, clearly they have; they
were prepared by our quantity surveyor advisers.
8152. Have Greenwich checked the costs, so far
as you are aware?
(Mr Anderson) I am not aware of that. We did
put the costs to them and did discuss them at a meeting and they
indicated that they would not seek to challenge them.
8153. Do you have any view as to whether there
is any real likelihood of driving down those costs significantly
any further?
(Mr Anderson) I think that is unlikely. Clearly
we have been through the exercise once and we have driven down
quite a saving. Of course I will need to speak to colleagues about
this, but the advice we have is that there is not much more scope
to reduce costs at all
8154. Can I come back to some points that Mr
Jones raised with you, and that is the London Plan and the fact
that it is out of date and the like? Does that mean that it is
a legitimate comparison to look at Greenwich's own figures for
Woolwich and compare them with the Crossrail figures for employment
and residential growth at the other stations?
(Mr Anderson) Not necessarily because we have
used the London Plan assumptions for the rest of the network and
the rest of the appraisal.
8155. If you updated the appraisals for the
whole of the network which is proposed in the build scheme would
it necessarily come out with the same figures to compare with
the EDAW figures for Greenwich?
(Mr Anderson) Not necessarily. Clearly that
would be a very, very extensive exercise for the whole loop; but
it would likely lead to a different conclusion perhaps at some
locations.
8156. Mr Elvin: We will provide the breakdown
in costs that the Committee requests. It is readily available
because, as I say, it has already been given to Greenwich. Would
a one-sheet breakdown suffice for your purposes, sir?
8157. Chairman: That would be helpful,
Mr Elvin. I would also like it if you would give us a value for
money breakdown on all the stations on the route.
8158. Mr Elvin: It cannot be done.
8159. Chairman: Why not?
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