Examination of Witnesses (Questions 9260
- 9279)
9260. Chairman: Thank you very much indeed.
Ms Lieven?
9261. Ms Lieven: Sir, can I call Mr Berryman
to deal with a number of those points.
Mr Keith Berryman, Sworn
Examined by Ms Lieven
9262. Ms Lieven: I think the best thing
would be to turn up the plan I referred to in opening and can
you just go through the Crossrail work that is being done in the
vicinity of the school and, if you can, with Miss Austin's concerns
in mind, talk about how some of those may be met by the detailed
layout of the works?[12]
(Mr Berryman): Yes. As members
who were on the tour yesterday will know, we looked at some of
the works which will be done yesterday and you may recall that
we walked along the street here and then we walked back up the
street and round the corner and went into the school here. We
walked and looked at the garden just here and then we walked down
the central aisle here and we looked out into the playground just
there. The works which we are doing in the immediate vicinity
of the school consist of constructing an escape stair and ventilation
structure, which is the square box shown here, and a light well
structure which is shown here, which on the plans is shown as
a circular shaft with a skylight in the top of it. The substantial
works that we are doing is building this box and providing access
from that box to get to some of the works underneath. In addition,
we are doing some works on the other side of the East London Line
railway just here to provide the entrance which I explained to
you yesterday on site from Crossrail's platform to those East
London Line platforms and that construction of that box is the
main work which is in the vicinity of the school. There are also
works down here on the station building itself. As you can see
they are rather more remote from the school and to some extent
they are shielded by this building here which is called Trinity
Hall, the block of flats that we were discussing yesterday evening
which is just here. There are also works over here and the sinking
of the shaft or the sinking of the tunnel and so on will be protected,
as far as possible, by noise attenuation on the site. The main
issue, I think, is the access to these works here which will be
by lorries coming along this narrow street, Durward Street, as
has been explained. The majority of the site access will be to
there. There will be some site access by small vans and the like
along this route here, but the main site access, the main deliveries
of concrete and steel and heavy plant and so on, will come down
here.
9263. Can I just stop you for a moment, Mr Berryman.
Why do you need a secondary site access?
(Mr Berryman): At the moment we clearly want
to take as little as possible from the school, so there is no
way of getting to the area behind the shaft that we are constructing
without going over the shaft, so although we can deliver bulk
materials down here and crane them in into place, it is difficult
to actually get to this back where we may have a lay-down area,
workshops and the like. Can I just point out that the intention
is that this access here will be used jointly by Crossrail and
by the school, because these car parks which are set out along
the top here are actually car parks for the school for the staff,
their existing staff car park is just here and this was as a result
of an earlier discussion that we had with the Bursar of the school,
we suggested this lay out.
9264. Is that going to be Crossrail car parking
or just school car parking?
(Mr Berryman): No, that is just school car
parking. The intention is, and this may come up in other contexts,
but the intention is to very severely limit Crossrail car parking.
What we do not want is our staff causing traffic jams by driving
to work during the construction of the railway. It has not been
raised before, but it is a general point which applies to the
whole of the works.
9265. Just a few specific points. First of all,
so far as Essex Wharf is concerned and the northern section of
it, I mentioned in opening some compensatory land, can you just
explain what the Promoter's thoughts are on that are A108.
(Mr Berryman): Yes. This area, I think, is
probably best described as scrub land at the moment. The area
to the south here of Essex Wharf is the area which was previously
used as a site compound for the construction of the ideas' store
and some of the members of the Committee looked through the hole
in the fence to see that that is a hard standing area, but the
area to the north has got vegetation on it, it is a kind of scrubby
area. That, with a little bit of attention, could be made into
a temporary or permanent garden for use by the school which may
act as part compensation for taking away some of the existing
garden area just here.
9266. And then in the long term, once Crossrail
is finished, could further land be given there?
(Mr Berryman): Certainly we have no requirement
for the land after construction is finished, it is purely for
the purposes of construction, so, yes, that could be done. I think
it is worth pointing out whilst we are on the topic, as it is
a matter mentioned already, this building is an emergency staircase.
The emergency staircase will discharge in that direction, north,
so that the people do not discharge into the street here and get
run over by vehicles, it will discharge north into the school
area. However, that exit will not be used except in the event
of an emergency on the station, in other words, we would expect
it never to be used and certainly there would be no access round
there for any of the Crossrail staff or any other members of the
public, it is purely the emergency exit.
9267. And while we are on that area, Miss Austin
mentioned, and perhaps we need to discuss this further with her
outside, that she was concerned about being able to develop the
school in the future and the building for schools' programme and
she mentioned that she had already had a difficulty in making
some development on the playground. Was that something you were
aware of before?
(Mr Berryman): No, I was not aware of that
until it was mentioned.
9268. And the area of Essex Wharf, and obviously
subject to issues such as planning permission, but potentially
will it be suitable for some form of development if that is what
the school wanted in the future post Crossrail?
(Mr Berryman): Well it may be, but the issue
here is that part of it is a tunnel, I believe it is a brick tunnel
which straddles the East London Line and so I am sure there are
some loading restrictions on there but, subject only to that and,
as you say, planning consent, I am sure that that area could be
used by the school, yes.
9269. Just to close down this point, is Crossrail,
once it is constructed, stopping the school's long term development
potential?
(Mr Berryman): I do not believe so, no.
9270. While we have the plan out, another issue
Miss Austin raised was loss of the garden. I think the garden
is partially the area shown in light blue?
(Mr Berryman): That is the garden, yes.
9271. What per centage of the garden is being
lost either temporarily and then permanently?
(Mr Berryman): Well permanently a very small
per centage, one or two per cent, I am not sure exactly. Temporarily
it would be about 30 per cent would be lost and of course, as
I said earlier, I know it is not ideal because it is not next
to the existing car park, but we ought to be able to provide some
compensatory open space in this area.
9272. Before we come to Durward Street, there
was mention of difficulties with investigating the built form
of the school. Is that something that you would expect to have
much problem investigating, given when the school was built?
(Mr Berryman): I am surprised that the records
are not available because it is, as you say, a recent building.
Judging by the structure, the only area that would be possibly
of concern to us would be this little bit just here, which I think
is the special resource centre which is used by a number of schools
in the area.
9273. I think that is what Miss Austin describes
as the City Learning Centre?
(Mr Berryman): That is correct, yes. That would
be obviously the only area where there is any possible impact
on our underground works. Judging by the overall look of the school
and the kind of structure, it is a very light-weight structure,
I do not imagine there are any deep piles or deep foundations
there. That being the case, I think it is very unlikely that there
will be, in fact I would go a bit further than that, I can confirm
there would be no impact of vibration from the running tunnels
of the railway on the school.
9274. That is vibration from the operation?
(Mr Berryman): Vibration from the operation.
Of course in this area, just here, the tunnels will be constructed
not by tunnel boring machines, but by lighter weight plant, as
I think was mentioned yesterday, so there should not be any noise
even during the construction from that source.
9275. And Miss Austin raised a concern as to
whether or not fire regulations applying to the school would be
capable of being met throughout the Crossrail construction programme.
Is that something Crossrail will take into account and meet?
(Mr Berryman): Yes. That is something that
we would obviously need to liaise with the school on and clearly
it is a statutory requirement and there is absolutely no question
that we would not meet those requirements.
9276. Can I then move on to the other area of
concern which is the routing of traffic and first of all choice
of exits between Brady Street and Durward Street. Presumably that
is a matter for the school to advise Crossrail as to which arrangement
they would want?
Mr Berryman: Indeed it is and
we would be perfectly happy, and I think we have already given
a commitment, to provide an exit out on to Durward Street for
pupils at the appropriate times and we are happy to do that. If
the school wants to do something else that will be fine by us
as well. I mean it is not something we have strong feelings on.
In any event, as we have already undertaken to do, we will not
have construction traffic going along here during the times when
school is coming in or discharging.
9277. The other aspect I wanted to ask you about
Durward Street is, and it arose last night with Miss Singleton
as well, what does the Promoter have in mind in order to stop
rat-running down Durward Street, because at the moment it is closed
so there can be no rat-running, how are you going to control that?
(Mr Berryman): That is correct. You can see
clearly on this plan a line of bollards across the street which
prevent Durward Street being used for through traffic. What we
would propose, but it is something we have to agree with the local
authority, but what we would propose is to put a manned barrier
on Durward Street somewhere at the appropriate point, probably
at the entrance to it, who would stop all vehicles which are not
Crossrail related, in other words coming down here, or requiring
access to these flats, but that is something we will have to agree
with the local authority because they are the highway authority
and that would be our proposal, but something like that would
no doubt be agreed.
9278. The only other thing I want to ask you
about, Mr Berryman, is the alternative access that has been discussed
and considered by Crossrail, so can you explain to the Committee
where it is and what the difficulties with it are?
(Mr Berryman): Yes. The idea would be to break
through here, there is a small garden here, and break through
into the back of the Essex Wharf site and so instead of having
this access here, have an access through there. The problem with
this is that the route actually, as you can see I think quite
clearly from this plan, goes through a residential area, it is
a very quiet residential area, and I think there would be issues
about that. We would also have to acquire access rights through
here which we do not have at the present time and we would have
to acquire a piece of land just there which is a garden, which
again we do not have the powers to do at this time. In order to
do this we would need to bring forward an additional provision
to the Bill which of course is something which we do not undertake
lightly, but I think the main issue is the residential nature
of the streets round here.
9279. Those are all the questions I have for
you, unless you think we have missed anything out?
(Mr Berryman): I do not think so.
Questioned by the Committee
12 Crossrail Ref: P85, Whitechapel Station, Durward
Street Shaft (TOWNHLB-30303-002). Back
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