Examination of Witnesses (Questions 9280
- 9299)
9280. Chairman: There is one question
I would like to ask. When we visited the site yesterday and indeed
adjoining areas, there was an impression of timescale which I
thought seemed to be extraordinarily long. Can you tell me how
long you envisage the roads being closed off and the work commencing,
how long will that actually take in respect of the school?
(Mr Berryman): In respect of this immediate
area, I think the total period would be about two years. I have
to say that the total construction period for the station will
be six years and this site here in particular will be operating
for the whole of that period, but the works here around the school
and the works here around the station, may not be coincidence,
so there may be quite a long period when there are works going
on in the vicinity, but I think the actual heavy work in this
vicinity is a couple of years.
9281. Ms Lieven: There was one other
issue which I should have asked Mr Berryman about, it does not
actually relate to the school, but I understood, sir, that you
did have a question about it yesterday to which we have an answer,
which is the amount of time that construction will go past the
primary school on Buxton Street.
9282. Chairman: I was actually going
to bring that up at a later point because, as I understand, they
are going to come in front of us some time in the future with
the petition for that area. The reason I asked that in relation
to this school was yesterday when we were in this area and in
the other area which consisted of, I thought, very minimal time
period of construction, maybe six or seven months or so, the general
impression of the residents in that area was that it was going
to take six to seven years?
(Mr Berryman): Yes. I am afraid that is a very
widespread impression in many areas, because the total construction
programme will take that long. That includes the heavy civil engineering
work and the fitting out and the buildings' works and so on, so
whilst the whole project will take that long, the duration of
the individual works at individual sites generally will not take
that long. Having said that, there are always exceptions and there
are some sites, for example, Paddington, which we have not got
on to yet, but where for the whole period there will be disruption,
but on most sites, to a greater or lesser extent, the period of
disruption will be shorter than that.
9283. Chairman: I would appreciate when
we get to this other Petitioner some time in the future that that
will be pointed out, because the impression of the local community
are that it will take that period of time on that small route
for that small demolition and building of the shaft, it is quite
worrying that they have a misconception altogether as far as I
can be aware?
(Mr Berryman): Yes, sir, and that is a problem
that we have had real difficulty in overcoming, because the objectors'
or the protestors' web sites all had that information on.
9284. Chairman: They are being told everything
will be six to seven years?
(Mr Berryman): Yes, that is correct.
9285. Chairman: Miss Austin, do you want
to ask Mr Berryman one or two questions?
Cross-examined by Miss Austin
9286. Miss Austin: Just in terms of possible
relocation of the garden, my concern is if it was relocated there
could be safety issues as well in relation to the site construction
to where the garden would be, quite an isolated position, which
I would want if that was going to happen for reassurance that
that would be taken into account? Secondly, I was a bit concerned
about the idea that if there was an emergency, and I suppose I
am more sensitive about this, because actually we were an evacuation
centre for the July 7 bombings, I am a bit concerned that if there
was an evacuation it would come through our playground with the
argument that it would not be all right for people to come out
into Durward Street, whereas a lot of my children come out into
Durward Street and will still come out into Durward Street and
it seemed a slightly contradictory position. I also was concerned
about the idea that in terms of relocating the entrance away from
the end of our school, the argument about quiet residential areas.
We were informed that there would only be five light vans using
that entrance and, therefore, I would not have thought five light
vans should be really problematic in a quiet residential area
if that is what the number of vans is actually going to be every
day. Also in terms of the Durward Street proposal of it being
looked at 24 hours a day that is really what would have to happen,
it would have to be manned 24 hours a day. Is that a serious proposal
that that could happen if it is actually going to be built as
a one-way street through to Vallance Road? Finally, our future
development will be stunted by the Crossrail proposals. It has
blighted possible development, in the uncertainty of the timing
of Crossrail, because of the management implications of dealing
with the proposal prior to implementation during the construction
period. The local authority's Building Schools for the Future
Programme is at present under development and the uncertainty
created by Crossrail is really preventing our proposals from being
fully developed. That is of grave concern to me and I want to
reiterate that in coming back.
(Mr Berryman) The first point is the safety
issues for the garden. We have not really worked a design for
this yet but it is something that would need to be done in conjunction
with the school. It is only recently that we have developed this
idea. Obviously the safety of pupils is the number one concern
that needs to be taken into account in the design of that. With
regard to the junction on to Durward Street, I want to emphasise
again that is an exit which we fervently hope will never be used,
but, if it were, the number of people coming out of here would
be very substantial and, unlike the pupils from the school would
not be aware of where they were going and issues of panic and
so on would be a factor. So I take the point that it is a slightly
different situation in a school where pupils discharge every day
and where they are going on to a road and so on. Five or six light
vans a day I can confirm is the kind of number we are talking
about. I cannot promise it will be five vans every day or not
more than five vans every day, but that is the order that we are
thinking of. The 24-hour cover on Durward Street is precisely
what we are proposing. The other point about the uncertainty and
such like caused by Crossrail are a little bit outside our control.
9287. Chairman: You have mentioned additional
provisions. We are going for additional provisions elsewhere.
(Mr Berryman) We are.
9288. What would be the time scale and the costs?
(Mr Berryman) If we were to bring in additional
provision, it would be brought in our 83 batch, which would be
dependent on your instruction of course, but would be brought
forward in the autumn of this year. The likely costs would be
a small number of tens of thousands: £50,000, £60,000,
£100,000 maybe.
9289. Chairman: Thank you very much,
Mr Berryman.
9290. Miss Austin, thank you very much indeed
for your presentation.
9291. Ms Lieven: Sir, could I say one
thing on the point on which Mr Berryman said he could not say
anything: building for the future and the difficulty the school
is having. I am authorised to say on behalf of the Department
that we would be quite prepared to write to the DfES to explain—assuming
that they are not building on part of the area that we need for
Crossrail—that we can see no reason why Crossrail should
impede their plans. It is important that there is some joined-up
government here and the Department is quite prepared to help as
far as it can in that respect.
9292. Chairman: That would be helpful.
9293. Miss Austin, thank you very much for your
presentation today. Could I just say that you are very privileged
today, because Mr Berryman, who has just given evidence, was the
chief engineer and is now the managing director of Crossrail.
I congratulate him on that quick move.
(Mr Berryman) Thank you, sir.
9294. Chairman: He offered a way of land
that may be able to be taken advantage of by the school. I think
you should bear that in mind. It is very rare you get offers like
that from managing directors.
9295. Miss Austin: Thank you very much.
The witness withdrew
9296. Ms Lieven: I did indicate in opening
that I had Mr Thornely-Taylor here, if you want to hear more about
the noise mitigation, but I think we have set the position out
in the letter.
9297. Chairman: We have already agreed
yesterday that we are going to hear a more detailed piece on noise.
We will deal with that at some time in the future.
9298. Ms Lieven: Yes, sir, but the issues
about noise for the school are rather different from those for
Kempton Court. I was not particularly intending that Mr Thornely-Taylor
would come back on the school on noise. It is entirely up to the
Committee. We have put our position in writing as clearly as we
can to the school. I suspect there is not much Mr Thornely-Taylor
can tell you over and above the letter, but he is here.
9299. Chairman: I think there is no real
need for that today because we need to have a look at the general
thing. If we do have concerns we know Mr Thornely-Taylor is available.
|
