Examination of Witnesses (Questions 10380
- 10399)
10380. Mr Liddell-Grainger: I think that
is enough; you are going off the point now, Mr Akker. I have let
you go on for quite a long time. You have made your points very
clearly, have you any other specific points?
10381. Mr Akker: Just about the website,
sir. I looked again after I said what I did this morning about
the attractiveness of the website and how user friendly it is.
Do you accept, Mr Dean, that there is little information relating
to the concerns of Spitalfields on that website in relation to
trying to address their specific concerns? There is a lot of technical
data about Parliament which needs to be explained in terms of
ordinary language, and it is not explained in ways which many
organisations would explain a complex and difficult arena.
10382. Mr Liddell-Grainger: Mr Akker,
I think we will get counsel to look at the website. I must confess
I have not seen the website myself; I do not know if any of the
Committee members have, so I think we will come back to that point.
Mr Binley?
10383. Mr Binley: I have two very quick
questions which really concern the general attitude of consultation
within the national government and local government scenario,
because the whole business of consultation came upon us rather
quickly and became a fashion item in this respect. I want to ask
two questions about the depth of professionalism and ability that
you feel the public sector has in effective consultation? I know
we are throwing a lot of money at it but I want your view on how
professionally we do this as a general response, first.
(Mr Dean): I am not sure whether I can speak
for the whole industry and all consultation exercises. What I
would say is that a number of respected commentators in the transport
industry have complimented on the standard and quality of our
work, and they have said, and I quote, "We have raised the
bar for every other project", and the work we have done has
been warmly received.
10384. Let me then be more specific, finally,
and I need to declare an interest. I come from the marketing world
and I have been horrified to learn that you did no market testing
of the work you undertook in this respect, and that concerns me
in two ways. One, you can throw a lot of money at a project and
not get any effect from a project unless you market test, so I
want to be absolutely sure from you that there were no elements
or that you did not really consider market testing to be important
or to be a sizeable part of this project, is that the case? I
want to know what market testing you did, because you could be
throwing your money in the wrong direction unless you actually
knew how the market was reacting to your marketing thrust.
(Mr Dean): I think there was a continual exercise
of market testing. We have had approaches—
10385. Let me cut this short. Then you will
be able to show us the results of that market testing?
(Mr Dean): Well, the results are the number
of people that we engaged in the project—
10386. No. I am talking about professional and
specific market testing. You can show us those results.
(Mr Dean): There has been market research undertaken—
10387. No, market testing. You can show us those
results?
(Mr Dean): What I am saying—
10388. I am asking the question at this moment.
Can you show us the results of your market testing?
(Mr Dean): I am not sure whether "market
testing" is something that I fully understand.
10389. Let me explain it to you very briefly.
It is talking to the people that you are targeting to find out
if your thrust is getting through to them and being understood
by them. That is what market testing is about. So, it saves you
a lot of money because you could get it wrong. Can I ask again:
you say you did market testing. If that is the case can you show
us the results of that market testing? It is a yes or no answer.
(Mr Dean): I can only give you my previous
answer, that the results of the market testing are in all of the
reports where people—
10390. Well, I have not seen any yet.
(Mr Dean): —have commented on the adequacy
of consultation.
10391. Mr Binley: I will leave it at
that, but I have not seen any, quite frankly, and I think that
is a shortcoming.
10392. Mr Liddell-Grainger: Mr Akker,
we will not take written submissions but what we suggest is if
you would like to come tomorrow to conclude I would be happy with
that, but could you be concise, please, and I will stop you again,
or Mr Meale, when he is back, will do so, and I thank you for
your questions.
10393. Mr Akker: It may not be necessary,
sir --
10394. Mr Liddell-Grainger: I leave that
in your capable hands but I do say again, please keep it concise.
We do want to hear everybody.
10395. Mr Elvin: May I just try and help
Mr Binley by saying that there are two NOP surveys which we have
not produced because we have not been asked for them yet, but
if Mr Binley would like to see them I have not got them to hand
but I will make surely copies are produced.
10396. Mr Liddell-Grainger: That would
be helpful. Thank you. Mr Dean, could you stand down, please?
Thank you very much.
10397. Could I call Dr Jeff Safir?
The Petition of the Spitalfields Practice
Mr John Akker appeared as Agent.
10398. Mr Liddell-Grainger: Dr Safir,
can I apologise to you for the slight overrun? It was unexpected.
We felt as a Committee it had to be dealt with now and I think
it has been a good use of time.
10399. Dr Safir: I have already arranged
a locum for this evening, so thank you.
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