Select Committee on Crossrail Bill Minutes of Evidence


Examination of Witnesses (Questions 11780 - 11799)

  11780. The position at Paddington is that you have sought to link into the other underground tube lines. Correct?
  (Mr Berryman) We have sought to link into all the tube lines: the Hammersmith and City, the District, the Circle and the Bakerloo Line.

  11781. The philosophy was, in 1994 (whatever you say about it, now, and I understand your points), that there should be a link, and a subterranean link initially.
  (Mr Berryman) There was an intention to use the parcels tunnel to form a partial link I do not think anybody could have claimed it was a very satisfactory link, because it would have involved going underground and then a changed level from basement level to, effectively, first-floor level—footbridge level—here, and then across and down again.

  11782. Yes, but there was a commitment to form an underground link, of whatever sort.
  (Mr Berryman) A partial underground link, yes.

  11783. What is the formal commitment to any link of any sort at the moment?
  (Mr Berryman) I have explained how passengers would make the movement from the Crossrail Station to the Hammersmith and City Line station.

  11784. All it is, is it not, is a facility by which you get the passenger to Paddington railway station platform and there he goes.
  (Mr Berryman) Yes, that is correct.

  11785. That is it; that is all you are doing.
  (Mr Berryman) Yes, that is correct, but we would say—and I do say—that there is a satisfactory route already existing from there to the Hammersmith and City Line, which is already fitted with MIP access, as we demonstrated yesterday. One of the Members actually used it yesterday.

  11786. Was it satisfactory in 1994?
  (Mr Berryman) I was not the promoter in 1994.

  11787. Was it satisfactory in 1994? The bridge was there, was it not? Platform one was there.
  (Mr Berryman) I am unable to answer questions about the 1994 scheme; I was not involved in it at all.

  11788. I am asking you now for your advice. Was it satisfactory in 1994?
  (Mr Berryman) Are you asking for my opinion as an engineer?

  11789. Mr Liddell-Grainger: Mr Clarkson and Mr Berryman, this is a long time ago. Is it relevant?

  11790. Mr Clarkson: Yes, it is relevant because, whatever the picture was in 1994, the Promoters did not feel it was appropriate to leave the passengers on platform one to sort themselves out across the bridge; they took a different course. That is why I ask the question, sir. I am not going into detail, I just want to know how things have changed.
  (Mr Berryman) As I have already said, I was not involved in the scheme at all in 1994. I certainly do not now and would not then have thought the arrangements proposed here were in any way satisfactory.

  11791. Let us remind ourselves of the document that the Committee were given yesterday, which we need not turn up—the route tour of Paddington.[27] I will read it out because I have no doubt you do not have it to hand. There is a paragraph under "Paddington Station" (it is not paginated) after the photographs. "Interchange with the District and Circle Line will be provided from the eastern end of the Crossrail Station by a short passage at basement level. This passage will provide level access to the northbound District and Circle Line with access to the southbound District and Circle Lines from the new footbridge and lifts. Provision will be made to enable future interchange with the Hammersmith and City Line to be provided from the Crossrail western ticket hall." Just show us, would you, where the Crossrail Western ticket hall is on one of the plans that we have put up this afternoon, just so we can identify it? You will remember that "Provision will be made to enable future interchange with the Hammersmith and City Line to be provided from the Crossrail western ticket hall". If we can just turn that up and, with your pointer, if you could identify where it is you have in mind.[28]


  (Mr Berryman) The Crossrail western ticket hall is below ground in this area just here.

  11792. And the Crossrail eastern ticket hall?
  (Mr Berryman) Is here.

  11793. So where is the provision to be made to enable future interchange? What is it you have in mind?
  (Mr Berryman) I am afraid that was copied from an old document which was part of an earlier consultation round.

  11794. So what the Committee was told yesterday was wrong. Is that right?
  (Mr Berryman) We did not particular raise that with the Committee yesterday.

  11795. It is yesterday's document, Mr Berryman.
  (Mr Berryman) It was in the document. Yes, I am afraid it was wrong.

  11796. The careful evidence now, 24 hours later, is that there will not be a provision to enable future interchange, so we must—
  (Mr Berryman) This ought to be a lesson to me to read every single document that goes out and not just the one which appears to be important at the time. Certainly, that was a very old copy from a very old information sheet.

  11797. It does concern us, you see, because have Westminster or anybody else been given the details of the engineering material you spoke of about the subterranean link? Let us turn it up. It is 17.[29] What I am talking about is that red link to the top left of the plan, and you have given us some engineering comments about it. Have those comments and the workings relevant to them been disclosed or discussed with Westminster?



  (Mr Berryman) No, they have not because we are not proposing to do it, so you only need to discuss things, surely, which form part of our proposals. For a variety of reasons, as I have explained, this does not form part of our proposal.

  11798. It may not form part of the proposal but you appreciate it forms part of Westminster's concern, do you?
  (Mr Berryman) Of course I do; they have just said it does.

  11799. And you appreciate that they want to understand what it is you say about that. Do you appreciate that?
  (Mr Berryman) Yes. As I said a moment ago, this is not part of our proposal.


27   Crossrail Ref: P99,Paddington Station-Route Tour Information for Paddington (SCN-20060621-002). Back

28   Crossrail Ref: P99, Paddington Station-Ticket Hall Level, 1994 Bill Proposal (WESTCC-32104A-012). Back

29   Crossrail Ref: P99, Paddington Station-Hammersmith & City Line Interchange, Ticket Hall Plan, Option B-Low Level Subway (WESTCC-32104A-017). Back


 
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