Select Committee on Crossrail Bill Minutes of Evidence


Examination of Witnesses (Questions 14480 - 14499)

  14480. Can I ask you about port forecasting and in particular port forecasting with regard to rail freight. Have you been involved in that?

   (Mr Garratt) I have.

  14481. To what extent has your work featured within any Government forecasting or consultation with regard to ports and rail freight capacity?

   (Mr Garratt) It is the basis for the forecasts within the current port consultation exercise currently out for consultation by the Department for Transport.

  14482. So when, as we are going to in a few minutes, we are talking about the amount of freight traffic that is coming from the ports and the figures in that context, are those figures as far as you are aware figures which from the Government's point of view are regarded as uncontentious?

   (Mr Garratt) I would hope so, yes.

  14483. Let us move from those general matters to things more specific. The Committee obviously is familiar with what is involved in Crossrail. Can you tell me please as far as your evidence is concerned this afternoon what is the overall plea that you want to make to the Committee, the overall message that you want them to take away?

   (Mr Garratt) Very simply that there be joined-up thinking so that Crossrail does not create other problems which themselves could have a wider impact, that is, that the act of authorising Crossrail and proceeding with it does not create problems in the rail freight area which would have added impacts, including on the ports industry and on the aggregates industry.

  14484. Those two particular industries, aggregates and container ports, how important is rail freight in terms of the amount of material that is moved by rail?

   (Mr Garratt) A very substantial proportion. We have heard a few minutes ago that rail freight plays a very important role in the aggregates field, something like 30 or 40% of all aggregates coming into the capital. In so far as maritime containers are concerned, around 25% of all maritime containers coming into the UK use rail and all that is through south east ports.

  14485. What about growth in those markets?

   (Mr Garratt) There is growth in both markets. The construction industry will obviously play a major role in some of the developments in the south east, particularly Thameside, and as far as maritime containers are concerned forecasts are that that volume will triple over the next 25 years, and clearly rail is expected to play a major part in that.

  14486. Chairman: Is that because the ports transfer of container goods is having to increase because of shortages in the container industry or is it general?

   (Mr Garratt) There is no question that we are in the process of globalisation so the volume of port traffic is to a certain extent dictated by a great deal of substitution of domestic production by imports.

  14487. Clearly if it is produced elsewhere in the UK then it will not be transferred by freight elsewhere in the UK. Is that tripling coming in because we are running out of aggregates in the UK?

   (Mr Garratt) Oh, no, I am sorry; I was referring to containers at that point. As far as aggregates are concerned, we are not talking about the ports industry at all.

  14488. The growth is not important?

   (Mr Garratt) Correct.

  14489. Mr Kingston: Mr Garratt, we know that we have different traction suppliers in terms of rail freight, four, I think. Is that right?

   (Mr Garratt) Four and more on the way.

  14490. A competitive environment there?

   (Mr Garratt) A highly competitive environment, yes.

  14491. And how important is that competitive environment from the point of view of achieving growth in the use of freight, something which we understand to be a Government objective for rail freight?

   (Mr Garratt) I think it is extremely important and the evidence is there to see. Since privatisation rail freight has grown by about two-thirds and you could say that the most important aspect post-privatisation is the creation of a competitive environment.

  14492. In brief what happens to the competitive environment if there is not enough capacity to satisfactorily accommodate freight on the rail network?

   (Mr Garratt) That level of competition clearly declines because the parts controlled by the resident operator, as it were, would stay with that operator and the level of competition, the degree of new entry level, would decline.

  14493. If competition declines what happens to prices?

   (Mr Garratt) They rise.

  14494. And what happens to usage if prices rise?

   (Mr Garratt) I would expect it to fall.

  14495. And if rail freight falls what happens to road transport?

   (Mr Garratt) Road freight will grow.

  14496. And how is that consistent with Government policy to diminish rail and increase road?

   (Mr Garratt) It is not consistent with Government policy for sustainable distribution.

  14497. We had a reference earlier this afternoon and therefore do not need to repeat it to the Minister's policy statement on 19 July 2005. Do you recollect that?

   (Mr Garratt) I do.

  14498. Just highlight for us, but not repeating the policy statement, those bits of it which from your point of view seem particularly important that the industry wants to put before the Committee please.

   (Mr Garratt) I think the most important aspects are that the Secretary of State's statement reiterated that Government recognises and wishes to encourage the important environmental and economic benefits that rail freight can bring and that it expects the industry to bring forward robustly based forecasts on which capacity would be based in the future. One aspect I would like to read out is. "In order for rail freight companies and their customers to invest in the uncertainty about where and when they run their trains on the network the Government will work with industry to develop robust demand forecasting and modelling tools and to ensure that it understands the needs of the freight industry when developing its high level outward specification and other key policies. We would ensure that our appraisal methodologies treat freight and passenger interests equitably".

  14499. "To ensure that appraisal methodologies treat freight and passenger interests equitably", what do you understand that to mean in practical terms? Does it mean that freight should give way to passengers?

   (Mr Garratt) I think the reverse. I think freight and passenger interests should be considered in parallel and that existing freight interests should be recognised.


 
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