Examination of Witnesses (Questions 15040
- 15059)
15040. Mr Taylor asks me to ask you to clarify
which undertaking, although I am not sure you are in a position
to do that.
(Mr Berryman) It says that
we will remove the relevant parcels of land from the power of
compulsory acquisition and bring as much of it as we require into
Bill powers of temporary occupation, so in other words change
it from permanent acquisition to temporary occupation.
15041. And we will write to EWS on this one
as on all the others, setting out precisely what we are prepared
to agree; is that right?
(Mr Berryman) Yes, that
is right. It is interesting that here there was talk about a customer
that had been frightened off from investing in this site. It is
worth mentioning that at the meeting that we held with EWS on
20 March, where this matter was discussed, apparently a note of
that meeting was made by EWS and they record that Charles Devereux,
a member of my staff, confirmed that a freight deal that had been
put on hold could go ahead and he would undertake the necessary
discussions, so there have been very positive efforts to make
sure that EWS, or indeed any other landowner, is not disadvantaged
by the existence of the plans.
15042. Thank you. West Drayton I think is one
of the sites that is affected by AP3; is that right?
(Mr Berryman) That is right. This is number
17-005.[96]
15043. Do you want briefly to explain what the
position of that is under the Hybrid Bill?
(Mr Berryman) Under the
Hybrid Bill we would have been taking this section of the land
here which is, you can see, occupied by a variety of users. A
great part of it is taken with coach parking but there are also
heavy lorries parked there and it is used as contractors' compounds
and that sort of work. It is not rail related at the moment. That
would be taken over to use as stabling sidings. There is a rail
site here which is used by Lafarge for the handling of stone and
we are in the process of making sure that that can continue to
work even if we have to take this piece of land. However, I should
point out that under the AP3, which we will be depositing later
in the year, we will not need this piece of land at all. It will
just stay as it is. There are a number of undertakings there which
EWS have asked for. One of them is to give an alternative piece
of land to replace this piece of land and we would not be able
to agree to that. It is not in use as a railway served site at
the moment, but we would be prepared to consult with EWS and other
rail operators on the proposed track layouts in this area. This
is the beginning of the Colnbrook branch which Mr Smith explained.
It runs round here like that. It goes down to tunnel 5 down there.
We would be happy to give an undertaking to consult with EWS and
other operators on the construction works that we require just
there.
15044. The next one is Southall which I think
might be photo 2, although I always have a lot of difficulty finding
Southall.[97]
(Mr Berryman) We have got a lot
of photographs of Southall.
15045. I thought it was number 2. Is it that
one, Mr Berryman?
(Mr Berryman) Can we put 23 up?[98]
There we are: that is Southall yard. Southall yard is this area
here. It is used by EWS and I believe another freight operator
at the moment. It has a number of functions but one of them is
to allow trains from the Brentford branch which goes off down
there to some aggregate terminals to turn around and we would
want it to continue to be used for that during and after the period
of construction of Crossrail works. We also need to use this during
the time that Acton yard works are being done when trains cannot
get into Acton yard. This is a possible site for braking and joining
trains which I think you have heard already is an important activity
that goes on at Acton yard. What we do not want is anyone to sell
this off for building and that is why we have taken powers over
this site. In case you think that that is an unlikely thing to
happen, you can see that the area is substantially residential
and we have already been asked and given consent for part of the
site to be sold for non-railway purposes. We would be prepared
to state quite categorically that we have no plans to build anything
on this site but we need it to be maintained in railway use.
15046. The next one is Hanwell sidings or Hanwell
Bridge, which I think might be photo 13.[99]
(Mr Berryman) Indeed it is. What
we propose to do here is to provide an additional loop between
the main lines and the relief lines so that trains which are crossing
over from Southall yard and cross over the main lines rest in
the middle before crossing over the relief lines.
15047. To give the Committee a bit of light
entertainment shall I put up the plan that explains it?[100]
Would that be helpful?
(Mr Berryman) Yes. I do not know
whether the Committee would regard it as light entertainment.
That is the current rail. A train coming out from here, and there
are a number of trains every day which do this, has to move right
the way across the whole network, the main lines and relief lines,
and to do that a path has to be available on each of the four
tracks. What we are proposing to do is put that centre loop in
here, which means that a train coming out of here only has to
cross over the main lines to get into there and it can then wait
for a path across the relief lines, and that should improve performance
for that junction quite significantly. This is one of the many
measures that we are taking to improve freight flows on the line.
We are happy to agree and we will write to them with EWS on not
acquiring land which will not be permanently necessary.
15048. The next one is Acton Yard and the dive
under. We have got plans and photographs of that.
(Mr Berryman) I think the
photograph is the easiest one. That is number 20.
15049. Can we put photograph 20 up, please?[101]
(Mr Berryman) Sorry, can I put
photograph 19 up.[102]
This is Acton Yard. This space here is a very large site, it is
a very important site in the way that the freight operations work
in London. This is where we are proposing to build a dive under,
here. What that will do is allow Crossrail trains to pass underneath
trains going into and out of the yard. That will be a substantial
piece of permanent work. We will write to EWS giving them an undertaking
not to unnecessarily acquire parts of that site but there are
a number of tenants on this site and we do need to take powers
so that we can rearrange the tenants and maybe make the site work
properly with this new rail. Can I mention one other point because
it is relevant to this moment—and I do not want to come
back to it—which is the suggestion for a loop at Acton Yard
which is one of the infrastructure enhancements which the petitioner
has requested. What they are really talking about is that as well
as the dive under, which cannot be used by freight trains because
it is too steep, that a surface line should be kept in place along
more or less the line of the existing relief line.
15050. Does it help to put up the plan on this
one?
(Mr Berryman) I would not
bother because what I am going to say is that we will certainly
look at that idea. At first pass it looks feasible, it does not
require powers, it is within the railway line, and it is in fact
an existing line which could be maintained so we will look at
that and see what we can do.
15051. The next one on EWS's list is Old Oak
Common but I am not sure that there is any benefit in dealing
with Old Oak Common now because it is intimately related with
AP3.
(Mr Berryman) It is. They have made two requests,
one is for what happens if AP3 happens and the other one is what
happens if AP3 does not happen. They are seeking us to provide
an alternative piece of land. I do not think that we could agree
to that at this stage. That would be something that we need to
get a bit further down the road with, what we are going to do
with that yard, that is picture 06.[103]
The bit we propose to take is this piece at the back here.
15052. Let us not say anything more about that.
Moving onto site eight, Paddington New Yard and West Yard, I think
the Committee are already pretty familiar with this one.
(Mr Berryman) This is 007.[104]
West Yard is currently occupied by the Great Western studios,
as this Committee have already heard, the tarmac batching plant,
about which we have heard a little bit and are about to hear more,
this area here which is used as a bus park at night by London
buses, we propose to provide additional siding so that this can
continue to be a rail serve site and to reposition this batching
plant still within the site boundary but in a slightly different
position. It is worth mentioning at this point that there may
be some interruption to rail service at this site while construction
is going on but this is the only significant rail freight site
which we will be interrupting for any period of time. During that
period, the site may have to be served by road. It is unlikely
that things will come by lorry all the way from the West Country,
they are more likely to come from one of the other sites.
15053. Bow Midland Yard, photograph three covers
west and east.[105]
Do you want to deal with east first?
(Mr Berryman) Can I say something
about Paddington New Yard. We will write to the petitioner on
re-providing for the rail access site but not for the strategic
freight site. This is Bow Midland Yard West here which is within
our limits to be taken and this is Bow Midland Yard East. Unfortunately
the Olympics have taken that and they are going to build some
nice warm-up tracks there which will get in our way.
15054. For orientation, show us where the Olympic
Stadium is?
(Mr Berryman) The Olympic
Stadium will be here. Our line is here. This is looking out towards
Shenfield and Stratford station is there. This side here is used
for rail freight. We are proposing also to use it for rail freight
to deliver materials for our tunnels and to take away the spoil
which arises from the tunnels. It is a rail freight site now,
it will be a rail freight site, it will be used by us as a rail
freight site, it will give lots of custom to the rail freight
operators. We will also try and keep all the people on here going
and again, we are happy to write to the petitioner explaining
about Bow Midland Yard West.
15055. Finally, Plumstead, photograph 11, which
is a strategic freight site?[106]
(Mr Berryman) What we are proposing
here is to take a big chunk of this site for the construction
of what is effectively the tunnel portal and a dive under. At
the time when we designed this, this site was not in use as a
freight site. I understand that subsequently a claim has been
made on the strategic freight site principle. We will look again
as to whether a freight site can be re-instated here after we
finish. I doubt it prima facie because it does not look
that practical but we will look at it again. In any event, the
site will be used for railway purposes as it will be part of the
Crossrail network.
15056. Thank you very much, Mr Berryman. That
is all the sites. You have mentioned writing to EWS in respect
of all of these sites. What is the timescale in which you will
be able to write to them setting out precisely what land we need?
(Mr Berryman) I would hope
to do that all by the end of September. Obviously, it is a busy
time just now and we need to reflect on one or two things but
hopefully we should be able to get that timetable by the end of
September.
15057. Finally, to reiterate one point, if EWS
has potential purchasers, lessees or occupiers who want some of
these sites and who are concerned that they are blighted by Crossrail,
what can Crossrail do to help?
(Mr Berryman) We are very
happy to give the necessary assurances that might be needed by
potential purchases. There is a parallel in the safeguarding directions
for Crossrail which have been maintained for the last 10 years
whereby we have the power of direct refusal to anyone who applies
for planning consent on the route of Crossrail. What we do is
we negotiate with those applicants, we come to arrangements which
is satisfactory to both us and them and then we settle it with
a legal agreement and we can do exactly the same thing in terms
of any freight customers who want to use these sites. I hope that
when we have written to EWS by the end of September that that
problem should go away in any event.
15058. Thank you very much, Mr Berryman, if
you can stay there.
Cross-examined by Mr George
15059. Mr George: I apologise at this
late hour, I am going to take some time but you will appreciate
the importance to us and I will go as fast as I can. Mr Berryman,
do you agree that you have to show a compelling case in the public
interest before you can acquire land?
(Mr Berryman) Yes.
96 Crossrail Ref: P112, Lafarge West Drayton Yard
oblique view looking east (LINEWD-GEN17-005). Back
97
Crossrail Ref: P112, Southall Yard oblique view looking east
(LINEWD-GEN17-002). Back
98
Crossrail Ref: P112, Southall Yard oblique view looking east
(LINEWD-GEN17-023). Back
99
Crossrail Ref: P112, Hanwell Sidings oblique view looking east
(LINEWD-GEN17-013). Back
100
Crossrail Ref: P112, Hanwell Bridge Sidings-Proposed Layout (SCN-20060711-019). Back
101
Crossrail Ref: P112, Acton Yard existing sidings layout view
looking east (SCN-20060711-020). Back
102
Crossrail Ref: P112, Acton Yard existing sidings layout view
looking east (SCN-20060711-019). Back
103
Crossrail Ref: P112, Old Oak Common oblique view looking east
(LINEWD-GEN17-006). Back
104
Crossrail Ref: P112, Paddington New Yard/Westbourne Park oblique
view looking east (LINEWD-GEN17-007). Back
105
Crossrail Ref: P112, Bow Midland Yard oblique view looking east
(LINEWD-GEN17-003). Back
106
Crossrail Ref: P112, Plumstead oblique view looking east (LINEWD-GEN17-011). Back
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