Examination of Witnesses (Questions 15420
- 15439)
15420. Mr Liddell-Grainger: We are kinder
than Mrs Dunwoody, I can assure you of that. Ms Lieven, have you
anything to start with?
15421. Ms Lieven: Mr Taylor is handling
this petition.
15422. Mr Taylor: I am going to let Mr
Pout introduce his petition.
15423. Mr Pout: We have circulated our
petition to the secretariat. It is about three and a half sides
of notes which cover the core issues which remain outstanding
and these are now up on your screen. First of all, to introduce
the situation fairly generally, London Thames Gateway Forum is
supporting Crossrail in principle. I had the pleasure a few weeks
ago of sitting through the presentation of the MP for Bethnal
Green and Bow and listening to his very eloquent comments about
problems relating to Whitechapel. As a community organisation
we are not entirely in agreement with that position. We are aware
of a great many concerns of the community and hence our petition
appears. I would like to start off first of all with the problems
of the consultation and if you look at the first action of that
paragraph we each sponsored a meeting in Toynbee hall on 11 October
2004.[33]
Keith Berryman attended as did a couple of his colleagues and
I am in no doubt that they were very taken aback, as I was, of
the extremely hostile reaction. What I was worried about at the
time was that there was this complete lack of understanding among
a great number of local people about what the project was. It
was a lack of understanding for all of the communities and it
was very clear that there had not been an appropriate communication
for the communities in that area although there had been an exhibition
and a presentation. I think a lot of people had misunderstood.
Having listened particularly that one evening three for four Wednesdays
ago I appreciate that a lot has been done to take that forward.
At this stage, we still see that there are a great many people
for whom it is not a case of English is their second language,
they do not speak English and they may not be able to fully understand
the issues and how to deal with complaints and issues around their
daily lives. That is an issue which we raise in a number of the
points. Certainly, as a community organisation, we do recognise
the benefits of the Whitechapel Station.
15424. Mr Liddell-Grainger: Mr Pout,
I am going to stop you for a moment. We covered this exhaustively,
in fact, I think I was in the Chair. We were very concerned, as
a Committee, that this had been the case. We made very clear,
as a Committee, that we did not accept that the full consultation
in all the different languages and all the people who have spoken
across the Crossrail area have been taken into consideration.
Certainly, we are still concerned that is not the case. Therefore,
I feel that has been taken into consideration. I accept exactly
what you are saying and from the Committee's point of view our
concerns were made.
15425. Mr Pout: In that case, I can leave
that issue on the table with your good selves. Our notes therefore
stand as written and we can move on. One particular issue that
we were concerned about is the location of works at Hanbury Street.
Again, I sat through one of sessions—I think Mr Liddell-Grainger
was in the Chair—when there were three people representing
issues in a block of flats. This was a very good example of nuisance,
which was dealt with that afternoon. The issue that concerns us,
as a community organisation working together, is that will there
be a clear standard about ensuring maintenance of the roadways
and cleaning of the roadways because I sat with my calculator
during that session and I came to the conclusion that we could
be looking at 11,250-odd depending on how the timing goes, 9,259
lorry movements in that patch. That is a very rough ballpark figure
and I accept that it might change but that is still a heck of
a lot of heavy lorry movements which will cause a considerable
amount of dust and dirt and it is ensuring that the local community
have the mechanisms to deal with problems. Again, you appear to
have dealt with that so I rest that issue.
15426. Mr Liddell-Grainger: I am very
grateful that you brought it again to our attention, thank you.
15427. Mr Pout: Obviously, there is the
issue about moratorium around schools and I think that has been
dealt with. One specific issue, which we are concerned about and
I go to our last sentence in that section which is on the next
sheet page two of our note, is who will be responsible for monitoring
and checking the suitability and competence of lorry drivers?
One hopes we are not going back into the realms of that dramatic
1960s film Hell Drivers but it is a case of making sure
that there is adequate and competent supervision of drivers. The
last thing I want to see, and I am sure the same goes for Mr Berryman
and his colleagues, is a four-year old child walking to school
and knocked down by a Crossrail HGV lorry. Again, I am sure you
have covered that.
15428. Mr Liddell-Grainger: I think that
also has been covered. I seem to remember there were assurances
given that all lorry drivers would be more than competent, please
carry on.
15429. Mr Pout: The next one is the location
of the shaft and I believe there are still discussions going on.[34]
Again, we have been sent a diagram of the number of locations.
I think the most popular location is still the car park next to
Britannia House. I leave those thoughts with you because I believe
that they have been covered by many others. I do not think there
is a great deal that we can add but there are issues that crop
up when one is preparing one's petition to a deadline.
15430. Mr Liddell-Grainger: I think we
understand that totally.
15431. Mr Pout: I feel I should formally
advise you that my colleague advising me is our full-time Chief
Executive. We were particularly concerned about issues relating
to noise and again to ensure that there is an adequate process
when dealing with complaints about noise at the time of that community.
15432. Mr Liddell-Grainger: I think that
was dealt with.
15433. Mr Pout: I think you will almost
certainly have dealt with that.
15434. Mr Liddell-Grainger: The ladies
and gentlemen of the flats exhaustively looked at the noise issue
for obvious reasons.
15435. Mr Pout: There may be many cases
because we have a couple of members who live in adjacent streets.
There is one in particular, one I know in the next street. The
issue is ensuring that the lorry route is the right one, the one
that produces the least noise and the least intrusion.
15436. Mr Liddell-Grainger: I think the
point is taken well on board.
15437. Mr Pout: Thank you. I will move
on. Romford Depot was an issue which I think a number of us who
have knowledge of railway issues phoned up the Crossrail team
about and said, "There is now an empty Eurostar Depot"
and they said, "Yes, we have noticed". I understand
that has now been resolved and that there is to be a new depot
at Old Oak Common for Crossrail. They will be making use of Ilford
Depot which is an excellent idea. I am one of the many who thought
about it and suggested it. Obviously, on that matter we are waiting
to see the full Environmental Impact Assessment and if there is
anything which emerges as a concern out of that, we will send
a note back to the Committee or possibly raise the issue when
it goes to their lordships House.
15438. Mr Liddell-Grainger: Please feel
free to do so.
15439. Mr Pout: Otherwise, we are very
pleased with Romford Depot and we will leave that. Provision of
cycles and cyclists, again, I think you will probably have had
representations from cycling organisations on this but it is an
issue which involves me because a couple of months back we were
dealing with the Docklands Light Railway transfer for the North
London Line, this is one of the links into the Stratford area
and it is part of the Olympic package. One of the concerns that
we had on that occasion is that it would not be possible to take
a bicycle on the DLR at all. At least on the conventional national
rail service somebody can get on with a bicycle as far as Liverpool
Street to take their journey forward. Under the Crossrail scheme,
I think that you will have to detrain at the last service station
which will now be Stratford, you cannot take it any further into
Central London.
33 Committee Ref: A172, London Thames Gateway Forum-Several
issues remain unclear (LINEWD-35105-001). Back
34
Committee Ref: A172, London Thames Gateway Forum-Location of
the Shaft (LINEWD-35105-002). Back
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