Examination of Witnesses (Questions 15900
- 15919)
15900. Thank you. Now just sticking with that
plan, in so far as we can use this one to save changing too much.
If we need to go to another one, please say so and take us to
the relevant exhibit, but I think we could probably do it on this.
A number of questions were put to you, the gist of the argument
of which was: "Okay, there is lots of carparking around at
the moment. Crossrail is going to come along, throw lots of offal
over the site and you are going to be able to turn some existing
carparking spaces into parking for articulated vehicles"
and the like. Do you recall those questions?
(Mr Melrose) I do.
15901. Where are those additional carparking
places at the moment, please, Mr Melrose?
(Mr Melrose) On this drawing?
15902. Yes.
(Mr Melrose) From when I
understood the question, it is to the right of this roundabout
area.
15903. Okay. Now you also referred to some under-croft
parking, just confirm so nobody is under any illusion about where
we find that. Where is this under-croft parking?
(Mr Melrose) The under-croft
parking, which we have just opened as a commitment to our Phase
2 development, sits underneath the ExCel building venue, as you
see it, and that provides 1,600 spaces and that is to compensate
for the spaces that are lost when we build Phase 2.
15904. There are additional phases of the development,
outline planning permission and there are negotiations yet to
be had with the London Borough of Newham, but let us move on from
the proposition, the basis, the matrix of Ms Lieven's questions
to the future situation. What is happening in terms of development
as regards the ExCel site?
(Mr Melrose) Certainly,
as we have discussed with Phase 2, we then have a number of considerations
for the further east end of the site in terms of a casino, as
I have said, hotels et cetera, a number of opportunities to support
the business. These are services that are critical again to attracting
major shows. One of the key difficulties that ExCel had when it
opened was the lack of hotels on site. As the venue gets bigger,
we host more events, the density of the site becomes more populated,
so we are going to need more services to support these events.
15905. Given the importance, which we understand
is common ground, of the ExCel centre, would you help us with
this, please: what do you regard as being the advantage or disadvantage
of sterilising future development proposals for the purposes of
remedying the adverse impact of Crossrail? Could you draw that
balance for us, please?
(Mr Melrose) I think if
we put in context what we are trying to achieve strategically
as a venue, London is in a position where it has a 21st-century
venue. Its ability to attract major events from all over the world,
bringing in conferences, key events, consumer events, all of our
services—and if you want the expression "back of house"—are
pushed to the north, so the visitor experience, the arrival experience
is all about what people see, what they feel. That is a passion
that we at ExCel hold true. If then we are talking about a blighting
of one end, the east end, of the site we are going to potentially
put a marshalling yard at what is the front door to ExCel and
potentially blight one end of it.
15906. So far my re-examination has been directed
to on-site matters, but we know again, as a matter of common ground,
there are places off-site where alternative parking can be located.
I am going to ask you a couple of questions about that. Firstly,
Ms Lieven was suggesting to you a combination of looking around
and seeing at any given time, when you are breaking down show
A and putting up show B, just going around doing a tour of the
local area, finding what parking is available and using that on
a hand-to-mouth basis and setting up an ad hoc communication
service, which no doubt will bring deep joy to the shareholders
of Vodafone, using mobile phones. Do you recall that line of questioning?
(Mr Melrose) I do.
15907. Clearly, those are matters which probably
could be done. Help us with this: given what ExCel is, its importance,
its 21st-century status and practicality, what do you say about
that? Is that a sensible solution or not?
(Mr Melrose) I think it is unrealistic. What
we are trying to achieve is a system of working that operates
efficiently, that delivers key services that can attract major
events and to keep moving services and re-deploying them I think
would be an absolute nightmare, certainly for repeat shows when
one year a truck marshalling yard happens to be at the east end
of ExCel, and then the next year we move it to the west end, and
then maybe the year after that we move it to the south side. I
think for consistency and continuity, that would bring disruption
certainly to the local area in terms of these trucks driving around
trying to find where we are parking one year to the next.
15908. I want you to imagine you work now for
Ford. Coming to the motor show you have got a large area of floor
space which you have taken. It is an important international showcase
for your goods. What is going to be your reaction if you are told,
"Please, will your driver turn up here. We will then give
them a piece of paper as to where to go in the local area and
we will call him by mobile phone if he has got one"? What
view would you form as Ford?
(Mr Melrose) I cannot see
that happening. I think there would be complete frustration on
the part of the supplier in terms of asking to change the process.
You have to remember when we talked before, we talked about one
company. They employ significantly a number of different contractors
so they have to manage this piece of information out to all their
suppliers. We are just complicating the whole process for them
rather than simplifying it.
15909. You have now heard Crossrail's case put
to you in cross-examination. I am going to repeat to you a question
I put to you in chief. We know there are sites available with
the ExCel area, where alternative provision can be made. We know
that as a matter of law and practice it is an obligation on Crossrail
to bring forward an additional provision. Are you now in any better
position to understand why such an additional provision should
not be brought forward having now heard the case put to you?
(Mr Melrose) No.
15910. Mr Newcombe: Sir, thank you very
much indeed, that concludes my re-examination and that is the
case on behalf of the Petitioners subject to my closing.
15911. Mr Liddell-Grainger: Thank you
very much.
15912. Ms Lieven: I will call Mr Anderson
very quickly. I am not going to call Mr Berryman in the light
of the way the matter has gone. There is no need to explain why
we need to have scope either in temporary or permanent terms.
Mr David Anderson, Recalled
Examined by Ms Lieven
15913. Ms Lieven: Mr Anderson, you are
well known to the Committee so I am not going to introduce you.
The only matter I want you to deal with in evidence is the benefits
to the ExCel centre from the Crossrail project.
(Mr Anderson) Yes,
as we have already heard, there will be new direct services to
Custom House Station adjacent to the site from a range of destinations
across London, west of London, central London, Canary Wharf and
also in the Kent area. I think we mentioned in opening there will
be a significant change in the accessibility of Custom House following
the construction of Crossrail. To give a couple of examples of
that, if you are looking at west London, accessing the site, we
would be looking at a reduction of journey times of about 50 minutes
down to less than half an hour. Similarly, looking at journeys
from the north Kent area to Custom House, again we see a similar
pattern, a journey of 50 minutes reduced to about 30 minutes.
It is that effect, that change in accessibility that is likely
to lead a change in the pattern of mode share to the site, leading
to the shift away from car access to public transport use that
we just heard about.
15914. Ms Lieven: Thank you. I am so
sorry, I said it was the only matter but there is one other matter
that we ought to clarify. Can we put up 003, the proposal on carparking
areas.[88]
Mr Newcombe in re-examination of Mr Melrose went to this lime
green area and suggested that was Crossrail's proposed alternative
parking area. Is that correct?
(Mr Anderson) No, I think we
mentioned in opening that the undertaking suggests that we will
be looking for other areas away from the site and I think we will
be mentioning in discussions with the LDA to identify those.
15915. Mr Liddell-Grainger: Mr Newcombe?
Cross-examined by Mr Newcombe
15916. Mr Newcombe: Mr Anderson, good
afternoon. We have not met before, as far as I am aware. As I
understand it, you are a planner and a member of the Institute
of Highways and Transportation. Have I understood that correctly?
(Mr Anderson) I am afraid
not.
15917. Can you explain to me, please, what your
area of expertise is?
(Mr Anderson) My background
is in transport planning. I am mostly responsible for the environmental
assessment of projects. I am a fellow of the Institute of Civil
Engineers.
15918. Thank you very much. When did you most
recently visit the ExCel site for the purposes of this Petition?
(Mr Anderson) I could not
give you an exact date.
15919. When did you visit the site?
(Mr Anderson) I visited
the site on several occasions since I joined Crossrail.
88 Crossrail Ref: P111, Proposed Lorry Parking Areas
(NEWMLB-7304A-003). Back
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