Examination of Witnesses (Questions 16900
- 16919)
16900. Mr Binley: Mr Berryman, going
through a planning application, no matter how large or small,
is expensive, it is costly, and it is quite apparent to me that,
through no fault of her own, because we have already admitted
that the consultation came and certainly your letter came after
the planning permission was applied for and we all know that it
is not the planners' responsibility to tell people of possible
other use in the future, so could you look at that too? We are
not talking, in the great scheme of things, of a great deal of
money, but I think it would be fair to Ms Cousins if you might
look at that and see if you can do something to help in that respect.
(Mr Berryman) I shall need
to talk to my property colleagues of course on that.
16901. I know you are a kindly man!
(Mr Berryman) I am a kindly
man, but unfortunately some of my colleagues are less kindly than
I am!
16902. Ms Cousins: One of the things
I really would need, and it ties in with what was said about going
through planning and dealing with contractors and so on, I really
would not want to be left with a piece of ground and be told,
"There you are", and have to go through all that again.
It is a right of way. It is actually two separate buildings which
are separated by half a metre and it is a garage with an integral
toilet. We drive down the side between the two properties into
the back garden and that dark area is actually the tarmacked area
up into the garage, so it is a functional garage/store room and
so on, so it is quite large. The playroom or summerhouse, as I
prefer to call it when I use it, is a functional building as well.
Basically it is just a square room, but it is carpeted and everything.
The children use it, they have their birthday parties down there,
so I have no problems and the children from the community can
come down and go straight down the back and go and play in the
playroom and I do not have to have them running up and down in
the house. They are functional structures, so I really would want
a commitment. Admittedly, before I came here, I had not appreciated,
I thought it was the entire, whatever shape area that is that
was under proposal to be taken permanently, but if it is only
a three-metre strip, whatever is left beyond that three-metre
strip to me needs to look like what is there now. That is the
commitment I would be looking for.
16903. Chairman: What we can give you
a commitment of today, Ms Cousins, is that Mr Berryman has promised
to set up a liaison with yourself to actually examine all of these
questions which you have asked, and in particular the installation
of sound barriers, and also to give you exact information of what
buildings will be there at the end of it. I am sure, even with
assurances now at this meeting, that the state of the land will
be put back in such a way that it will not be left in disarray.
(Mr Berryman) I am happy
to give that commitment. We already have an information paper
on that point of course, so it is a policy of the whole thing.
As regards the buildings, that is a slightly different issue.
The issue of whether they can be rebuilt or not would be covered
in compensation.
16904. Chairman: But perhaps you can
take on Ms Cousins' concerns and actually give us an assurance
that what will be left will not be worse.
(Mr Berryman) I am happy
to give that assurance now. The reinstatement will be with her
agreement.
16905. Ms Lieven: Can I just say, sir,
that we will look into whether it would be possible for us to
make reprovision. Obviously it is not a financial issue, this
one, at all because we will compensate in any event, but if it
is possible for us to make the provision within the Bill, then
that would ease Ms Cousins' position in having to reapply for
planning permission and go through the whole process again, but
there are legalities to that which we will have to look into and
we will write to her setting out what the position is.
16906. Chairman: I do not think that
any of the things that were suggested here are great difficulties
and I think that they are all solvable so that some kind of benefit
on both sides can be achieved. Mr Berryman has actually agreed
to this meeting and he has been as helpful as he possibly can.
I think that is enough for the Committee.
16907. Mr Binley: Can you report back
though in good time while this Committee is still in being? That
would be helpful.
16908. Ms Lieven: We will certainly be
able to report back while the Committee is still in being. I do
not know how much the Committee knows about the procedure at the
moment, but this is likely to be a relatively short period of
sitting, perhaps only a couple of weeks or a couple of weeks and
a day, but if we can get an answer back within that on it, we
will do our utmost.
16909. Chairman: Can I just say, Ms Lieven,
that it may be for you, but it may not be for us because we have
to read all of your reports!
16910. Ms Lieven: I should have said
the public sittings, sir.
16911. Chairman: We also have to write
our report and agree our report, so we are going to be fairly
busy.
(Mr Berryman) We will of
course be back with additional provisions in January.
16912. Chairman: We are not out of October
yet, so there is still a while to go. Ms Cousins, are there any
other matters you want to raise?
16913. Ms Cousins: No, I think that is
the substantial bit, thank you.
The witness withdrew
16914. Chairman: Ms Lieven?
16915. Ms Lieven: Do you want me to make
a very brief closing, sir, so that you have it on the record largely
for those members of the Committee who are not here?
16916. Chairman: Please.
16917. Ms Lieven: There are just four
points to cover. First of all, there is no real issue; we need
the land. Secondly, the permanent acquisition is only of a very
small proportion, three metres of a 42-metre garden. Thirdly,
on vibration, our trains will not be increasing vibration and
they will have no material effect whatsoever and she will be benefited
by the acoustic fence which will certainly lessen the noise from
the freight trains, albeit not the vibration. As far as the suggestion
of putting padded track in is concerned, which we have discussed
for the tunnelled sections of the route, as Mr Berryman has explained,
on a ballast and earth embankment that simply would not serve
the purpose and it would be quite inappropriate. On consultation,
we absolutely hear what the Committee says. The consultation has
not been perfect, but it never is perfect. It is an impossible
thing, I suspect, ever to meet the desires of people who want
to know everything with the desires of people like Ms Cousins,
and I have to say myself, not to have every tree cut down to get
masses of paper or to persuade people to open envelopes which
are addressed only to the occupier, but we will keep monitoring
and we will keep reporting back to the Committee on how we are
getting on.
16918. I should say that we totally understand
that members of the public who are directly affected, particularly
whose own houses are affected, may well feel very intimidated
by the entire process and we do appreciate that and we do as much
as we can and we are learning every day to try to do it better.
Of course we have said that we will liaise further and we will
look into what further works we can do.
16919. Chairman: Ms Cousins, can I thank
you on behalf of the Committee for what I described earlier as
a very refreshing presentation. We are very grateful to you and
we will look at what has been said today and ensure, as far as
possible, if we can, that it reaches a satisfactory conclusion.
Thank you, Mr Berryman, again. The Committee will now adjourn
and will next meet tomorrow at 10 am.
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