Examination of Witnesses (Questions 18880
- 18899)
18880. Chairman: It is already sorted.
18881. Mr Mould: Thank you very much.
18882. Chairman: Can we now move on to
the Petition of GE Pensions Limited and they are represented by
Bircham Dyson Bell. Ms Lieven.
18883. Ms Lieven: What I propose is I
will make a short opening statement and some of the Committee
may be aware that there is a model, so we were going to suggest
that perhaps the Committee would like to go outside with Mr Berryman
and he will explain the model, but I think it is probably helpful
if I do a short opening and some of the visual material first
so you understand what the issues are.
18884. Chairman: That would be helpful.
What we will then do is we will suspend and then reconvene.
18885. Ms Lieven: I am very grateful,
sir. This Petition concerns the AP3 work at Bond Street. I think
the Committee knows hardly anything about Bond Street because
I do not think there have been any Petitions on it before at all.
If I can start by putting up the original Bill scheme drawing
from the Environmental Statement just to orientate us.[5]
While Mr Fry is getting it on the screen, the Committee will know,
I am sure, that Bond Street is a very busy station in the middle
of Oxford Street serving a very important function, both in terms
of workers in the surrounding area and shoppers. It serves the
Jubilee Line going north-south and the Central Line going west-east.
The Crossrail scheme in the Hybrid Bill involves building a large
new station to the south of Oxford Street, where I am indicating,
two ticket halls, the Hanover Square ticket hall, which the Committee
has heard something about before; and the area we are concerned
with this time, which is related to Bond Street Station itself,
and the Crossrail proposal, is to build a new ticket hall at Davis
Street which links into the Crossrail platforms and with an interchange
tunnel running north up into the LUL station.
18886. Where we go from there is that as the
project was progressed through the last year or so and further
work was done, it became apparent that by building the new Crossrail
infrastructure and linking into the LUL Station there was a major
problem with passenger flows at the Bond Street LUL Station, particularly
focused around the interchange with the Jubilee Line.
18887. If I can have put up the AP3 equivalent
drawing which will not mean a huge amount to the Committee at
the moment, but just use it as a base.[6]
The consequence of that concern is that in AP3 we are promoting
additional works which are intended to relieve congestion within
the existing Bond Street tube station. You can see those marked
on the plan north of Oxford Street there. The Petitioner's property
is a property on Oxford Street and the corner of Stratford Place,
which I am indicating now, which will need to be demolished under
the AP3 scheme.
18888. If I can explain the background to this.
Crossrail has quite a complicated effect on Bond Street Station
because it takes people off the Central Line, so it relieves congestion
on the Central Line. Of course, the Committee will remember that
for a good bit of the route Crossrail is following the line of
the Central Line, so many passengers will come of the Central
Line and be on Crossrail instead, but it increases the number
of people interchanging off the Jubilee Line on to the totality
of Crossrail and the Central Line. Self-evidently, for those of
you who know London well, people coming from North London interchange
at Bond Street at the moment on to the Central Line to go east
to the City and the Chancery Lane area, such as that, and that
flow is increased by the provision of Crossrail. Those of you
who know the station already will know that it is already a very
congested station. One of the things I was going to say at this
stage is if there are any doubts on this issue I would invite
the Committee to go on a site visit and see what I see most mornings
of the week, which is a very, very congested station already in
the morning peak.
18889. If I can put up the axonometric.[7]
This is both the existing station and the AP3 works, but the existing
situation is that we have the Jubilee Line down here with one
bank of escalators going up to an intermediate concourse, and
the existing congestion is largely focussed around that escalator.
Mr Berryman and Mr Anderson can talk more about that. The conclusion
reached through the early part of last year was that the Promoter
could not promote Crossrail without a scheme for relieving congestion
at Bond Street because there was too much risk of major operational
problems at Bond Street if we do not relieve that congestion.
Mr Berryman can explain the congestion relief scheme in detail
and can show you on the model, but just to give the Committee
a sense as to where we are going.
18890. At the moment there is this existing
bank of escalators. The AP3 scheme provides for additional escalators
over here which relieves, very significantly, congestion around
the existing escalators and around the existing intermediate concourse,
and it also provides for a new ticket hall on the site of the
Petitioner's property and for step-free access for people with
mobility problems via that new ticket hall.
18891. There are three benefits. The principal
one is the need to relieve the congestion and the two secondary
ones are a high quality ticket hall to the north of Oxford Street
and high quality step-free access via that new ticket hall. The
scheme involves the demolition of this one building owned by GE
Pensions. Before we leave the axonometric, can I say that it is
slightly confusing because it does not show the Crossrail ticket
hall. The Crossrail ticket hall is over here and we decided that
to try and put on the Crossrail Hybrid Bill scheme on to this
as well was going to make the axonometric almost impossible to
draw. We have the Davis Street ticket hall up here and a subterranean
passage coming in here and linking into the existing infrastructure
next to D, where the Committee sees it marked there.
18892. If I can have put up the photograph of
the building to be demolished, it is this building here.[8]
I am sure it is dearly beloved and of considerable value to GE
Pensions but I think we could all agree not a particularly architecturally
beautiful building. An important point here is that we are talking
about an extremely congested and constrained location. The Committee
may be familiar with Stratford Place which is a cul-de-sac just
on the corner of the building going north of Oxford Street, a
street which contains a number of listed buildings, including
a Grade I listed building at the end, but it also contains two
high commissions and is obviously right on the very busy pedestrian
section of Oxford Street and next to the equally busy Oxford Street
road with all the buses that go up and down.
18893. We are talking about a very, very constrained
location which has made it very difficult to find a solution to
the problem at Bond Street.
18894. Before I hand over to Mr Berryman to
take the Committee to show them the model there are two points
I want to make on the evidence which may help to speed things
along this afternoon. First of all, Mr Berryman will give evidence
on why we chose this scheme and the degree to which we looked
at other solutions to this problem and had to dismiss them, so
the options that were considered. Mr Anderson will give evidence
on the need for this work in terms of congestion in the station.
He has come armed with a number of PEDROUTE runs. The Committee
may remember PEDROUTE from Liverpool Street. I am afraid we do
not have the wee men running around on this one, the Legion runs,
we only have the PEDROUTE coloured drawings, but Mr Anderson has
those to show you the nature of the problem. There is one comment
that I think should be made about it in advance. The evidence
shows considerable congestion by 2016 and wholly unacceptable
congestion with plus-35 per cent. The Committee may remember that
that is the LUL checking figure that we are designing to. The
Committee may remember on Liverpool Street, Mr Spencer said we
should be looking at even higher figures. Here we have tested
it at 35 per cent and we can show you the results. There is an
argument as to what degree that congestion is the result of Crossrail
and to what degree is part of the existing issues at Bond Street
to do with LUL alone.
18895. We could probably have that argument
for many days as to quite who is—to put it colloquially—to
blame for the high level of congestion that we see appearing at
Bond Street post Crossrail, but the view the Promoter has taken
is that that is largely beside the point. I have to say, with
all respect and, indeed, thanks to the Committee, we have learned
the lesson of Liverpool Street. We are not trying to say this
is a LUL problem and therefore it should not be part of the Crossrail
Bill and it is for LUL to pick it up, we have moved on in our
thinking from trying to argue that, very much in the light of
the way the Committee looked at Liverpool Street. As far as we
are concerned, the position at 2016 and onwards is one which is
unacceptable and one that the Promoter cannot promote a Bill for
Crossrail where there is a risk that the operational problems
at, or very soon after, the opening date of Crossrail are so significant.
I thought it was useful to say that in advance because it makes
our position, I hope, entirely clear. I hope I have outlined the
principal points at this stage. Unless the Committee has got any
questions for me, I invite you to adjourn briefly and have a look
at the model.
18896. Chairman: We will do just that.
After a short break
18897. Chairman: Mr Thompson?
The Petition of GE Pensions Limited
Mr Paul Thompson appeared on behalf of the Petitioner
Bircham Dyson Bell appeared as Agent
18898. Mr Thompson: As we know, sir,
I appear for GE Life Pension for their petition against AP3, that
is Petition number 49. GE Pensions Limited is a UK company forming
part of the GE Life Pensions and Insurance Group which was recently
transferred to the Swiss Re group of companies in 2006. As you
have heard, the company owns the freehold interest of the whole
of what is 354 to 358 Oxford Street and 1 Marylebone Lane which
Crossrail is telling you is now proposed for compulsory acquisition
for the purposes of a new London Underground ticket hall and congestion
relief scheme. Ms Lieven has helpfully introduced quite a lot
of what I might need to say just to tell you about this, so I
shall jump quickly on.
18899. The property, if we can just be clear,
includes two basement levels: retail units on the ground and the
first floor; and four floors of residential dwellings above. It
is a Richard Seifert building—if people are interested—and
I will not comment on its architectural quality. The reason this
Petitioner is appearing today is three-fold. First of all, because
it remains to be convinced that the property is really needed
for Crossrail or that the proposed works stack up in engineering
terms as the right solution to any congestion issues at Bond Street.
Secondly, we are appearing because when we informed the Promoters
that we had these doubts, but were content to have further discussions
with them about this and reserve our position about the principle
of it with a view to returning to it, if necessary, in the House
of Lords, we were told that that was not acceptable and if we
wished to question the principle of the proposals we had better
appear today, and that is why we are here, because we do. Thirdly,
we are here because if AP provisions affecting our party become
part of the Bill, and we question that, we wish to have the option
of entering into what is called an Over-site Development Agreement.
Sir, if I begin to stray into OSD, over-site development, a lot
of us call it OSD—it will slip out at some stage—we
are interested in entering into an OSD Agreement along broadly
the same lines that are now being entered into by other landowners
with property over proposed station works.
5 Crossrail Ref: P137, Crossrail Amendment of Provisions
Environmental Statement (AP3), Bond Street Station, Amendment
of Provisions-Original Scheme and Context Plan, Map C4(i) (LINEWD-AP3C4-002). Back
6
Crossrail Ref: P137, Crossrail Amendment of Provisions Environmental
Statement (AP3), Bond Street Station, Amendment of Provisions-Transport
Links, Map C4(iv) (LINEWD-AP3C4-005). Back
7
Crossrail Ref: P137, Crossrail Amendment of Provisions Environmental
Statement (AP3), Bond Street Station, Amendment of Provisions-Axonometric
(LINEWD-AP3-49-04-001). Back
8
Crossrail Ref: P137, Photograph of GE Pensions Limited, Bond
Street (SCN-20070131-002). Back
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