Examination of Witnesses (Questions 19060
- 19079)
19060. Sir, the situation is here that as far
as Romford Station is concerned, there is at one side of it a
busy bus station. We, sir, asked that Crossrail should be invited
to investigate the possibility, that was all, of pedestrians being
able to go directly from the bus station into the railway station
instead, if I may put it this way, of having to tramp into the
street around the station, along the other side and then into
the station. The evidence before you was expressly to this effect—and,
sir, I can give the reference, paragraphs 7390 and 7395, by Mr
Berryman—that that exercise had simply never been investigated,
for pedestrians to be looked at to go through. What they had looked
at was the possibility of moving the station in toto, but they
never looked at the possibility of simply allowing the pedestrian
to walk through.
19061. Sir, what we ask, because it appears
to be the position that it was being made plain by you, sir: "Why
can't that be looked at, that second point; and, first of all,
why can't we have proper access for the people in wheelchairs
and so forth?" we thought that had all been dealt with but,
unfortunately, as has been explained, a different view has been
taken.
19062. Sir, that is the scene and that is what
I, on behalf of Havering, am going to invite the Committee particularly
to look at this morning. As we indicated I really do not want
to take up much time about it; because they are a remarkably short
pair of points. What I would wish to do with your leave, sir,
is to call Mr Thomas to describe what has happened and refresh
the mind as to what Romford Station looks like. If Mr Thomas could
come forward I would be much obliged. You should have found in
front of you, sir, a set of pictures and slides.
19063. Chairman: Let us call this A218.
Mr Martyn Thomas, Sworn
Examined by Mr Straker
19064. Mr Straker: Mr Martyn Thomas,
you gave evidence to this Committee last year, I believe?
(Mr Thomas) That is correct, yes.
19065. Just remind the Committee as to your
position within the London Borough of Havering and your qualifications?
(Mr Thomas) I am a Development and Transportation
Planning Group Manager. I have an Honours Degree in Town and Country
Planning and have almost 30 years' planning experience. My group
are responsible for land use and transportation and planning policy
matters. I have particular responsibility for looking at Havering's
interest and involvement in the Crossrail proposal.
19066. I think you have been responsible for
preparing the slides which we are about to see?
(Mr Thomas) That is correct,
yes.
19067. If we go to the first marked HAV2 in
the bottom right-hand corner, just help us as to this one, please?[11]
(Mr Thomas) The slide shows quite
clearly that what we were trying to do was to work with the Promoters
to see whether they could develop an entrance through from the
south side of the station. Our concern was that this had not been
explored previously. We do not think it has been resolved yet.
That was our concern at this stage. Secondly, we wanted to see
that there may be a possibility for a new access on the south
side which might be of multiple use; because the access through
from the south side at ground floor level was not possible.
19068. Let us refresh our minds as to the immediate
vicinity of Romford Station. HAV3 shows, does it, the street in
which Romford Station is placed?[12]
(Mr Thomas) That is correct.
HAV3 shows the bridge over South Street, which is the main shopping
street, in Romford. We can see the station entrance which is underneath
the far metalwork structure in the centre of the picture. That
is the main pedestrian entrance into the station. It is immediately
off a relatively narrow and, as you can see from the slide, fairly
congested section of pavement. If you look to the left-hand side
of the picture you can see where passengers would be coming from
the bus station or leaving the station to go to the bus station.
If you look to the right-hand side of the picture you can see
in the distance the remainder of the town centre, which is where
other passengers come from. On the right-hand side of the picture
you can see the rear end of a bus which has got a blue rear panel;
that is the approximate position of where the new station entrance
would be under the Crossrail proposal. Under Crossrail's proposal
passengers alighting at the bus interchange on the south side
of the station will walk across the picture from the left, past
that large brick embankment, past the two phone boxes which you
can see in the centre of the picture, past the new entrances which
would be closed up of course, past the traffic light, which you
can just about see and they would then turn into the station entrance
more or less in the position of that blue bus. We would say that
is only part of the issue though, because once they have entered
the station at that position they have then got to double-back
on themselves to come back through the gateline and then to find
access to the platforms. We consider that is an unacceptable distance
for passengers to have to make.
19069. Thank you; that is HAV3. Then we look
on to HAV4 and here we can see, can we, one of the bus stops in
the bus station?[13]
We are here looking at the south side of the railway station?
(Mr Thomas) That is correct. This
is a continuation of the picture we have just seen, just further
to the south. You can see the tail end of one of the bus stands
there. There are, I think, five stands in that area. Immediately
behind the building on the left there is a large turnaround and
stacking area for buses. In total some 30 or so bus services use
this facility; and a significant number of the five and a half
million passengers who use the station every year will arrive
from this direction. The photograph also shows the existing ramp
which we referred to, which leads to a mezzanine level within
the station. You can just see at the top of the ramp, immediately
to the right-hand side of the no entry sign, is the doorway which
we have referred to which is operated by a bell system, whereby
passengers have to ring the bell for a station employee to come
and open the door.
19070. It is in the vicinity of what we can
there see, those four rounded areas, where it was being suggested
that investigation could be made of the possibility of a pedestrian
entrance?
(Mr Thomas) That is correct. Those are the
areas to which we feel Crossrail should address some attention
in looking at the scope to provide the ground floor link-through
from the south side of the station through into the main station
area. As we have said on a number of occasions we do not feel
Crossrail have done that work; and we have not seen a convincing
case yet for that being possible or not possible.
19071. If we just cast our eye forward. HAV5
shows the Crossrail proposals for Romford Station?[14]
(Mr Thomas) That is correct. This
is very similar to the slide which was shown earlier on. The station
entrance as is proposed is marked with the yellow triangle and
"A"; "B" shows the bus interchange area; and
you can see the distance between the two facilities. I think the
point we made when we were here last year was not so much the
distance involved as the time taken for passengers to walk past
the station and then double-back on themselves.
19072. Very well. If we go over then to HAV6
(which can be more or less moved on from straight away) that just
shows buses being focussed on Romford Station?[15]
(Mr Thomas) That is correct.
That is a diagrammatic impression of the importance of Romford
Station as a focus for bus linkages into and out of the town.
19073. The people, or some of them, who use
that can be seen in the next slide HAV7.[16]
There one can see a number of stops all recording the number of
buses which visit them in that particular location?
(Mr Thomas) That is correct.
That slide shows four or five bus stands. As I referred to earlier
on, there is a turnaround area for the buses immediately behind
the building in the photograph.
19074. Then we have HAV8, the possible southern
entrance to the station.[17]
This is just a part by the bus area?
(Mr Thomas) That is correct,
yes.
19075. HAV9 this is what was originally suggested.[18]
If we could just take this slightly more slowly. "(a) Unless
the nominated undertaker is of the reasonable opinion that there
are reasonable engineering reasons why it cannot be constructed,
the nominated undertaker shall, as part of the scheduled works,
construct a pedestrian tunnel link at ground level between (1)
the southern side of the viaduct/embankment of Romford Station
to the north of the existing bus station and (2) the existing
ground floor ticket hall and stairways at Romford Station, and
the constructed tunnel, hall and stairways shall be open to all
passengers during all normal opening times of the station".
Pausing there please, as far as pedestrian access is concerned,
that is speaking to a pedestrian tunnel link; do you know of any
investigation which has taken place as to whether a pedestrian
tunnel link is practicable?
(Mr Thomas) I have no knowledge
of any investigations that Crossrail have done, or that they have
told us about, about the feasibility of an access as we have requested.
19076. Indeed, as I have mentioned, sir, evidence
was to that effect. If the nominated undertaker is of the reasonable
opinion that it could not be constructed that led to a certain
contingency, differences being arbitrated? (Mr Thomas)
That is correct, yes.
19077. If we look on at 7450 at HAV10, I think
you have highlighted some of the text here which has been referred
to.[19]
I want to take this a little more slowly than I have taken the
previous text please. Do you see one is that "the Promoters
will undertake to work with the council to see if thy can develop
the foyer of the entrance to this in such a way that it would
improve access and exit". Just help the Committee please
as to your understanding as to what was in mind in there?
(Mr Thomas) We were expecting
to have some discussions with Crossrail very much along the lines
of the discussions we have had throughout the project with them
as to what scope there was to develop the foyer at the entrance
to provide an access and exit of an improved nature.
19078. The second thing is, given the undertaking
to the Committee, they will go away and examine if there is a
possibility for a new access which might be of multiple use. Help
the Committee about that, please?
(Mr Thomas) That was relating to the possibility
of the ramp access being provided, and that being a facility which
would be able to be used by all of the community, not necessarily
just for people with restricted mobility; and also making provision
for improved access in terms of not needing to have a bell operation;
and also, potentially, having a gateline arrangement so that passengers
could use the ramp access and then have direct access to the station
rather than having to visit the ticket office before they went
on the platforms.
19079. Then if we go over, we have the interim
conclusions to which reference has already been made, HAV11, on
25 July 2006.[20]
We can cast over that to HAV12, which has already been referred
to this morning, the Crossrail letter of 13th.[21]
Then at HAV13 you have done walk times, have you?[22]
(Mr Thomas) This is actually
a Crossrail supplied drawing which I think illustrates that it
is not just the distance involved here but we are talking about
the time that it takes people to arrive. If you look on the slide,
basically if you look at the red line which leads up from the
bus station as it is, which is on the right-hand side of the slide;
that shows the walk time from the existing bus station through
to the existing central entrance, if you like, to the station;
and that indicates that walk time is somewhere in the region of
36 seconds. Under Crossrail's proposal, as we have said, the central
entrance point is going to be closed off and pedestrians walking
from the south will have to walk past the station entrance, northwards
up South Street before turning into the station and then walking
through the foyer arrangement of the station to the new gateline.
Crossrail's drawings themselves identify that would take a further
minute and six seconds, with a total time of some one minute and
42 seconds, which we see as, frankly, a waste of time for the
many passengers who use the station.
11 Committee Ref: A218, Undertakings accepted by the
Select Committee-Romford Station (HAVGLB-AP3-31-05-002). Back
12
Committee Ref: A218, Romford Station from the south (HAVGLB-AP3-31-05-003). Back
13
Committee Ref: A218, Romford Station-Existing southern ramp (HAVGLB-AP3-31-05-004). Back
14
Committee Ref: A218, Crossrail proposals for Romford Station
(HAVGLB-AP3-31-05-005). Back
15
Committee Ref: A218, Bus Routes in Havering (HAVGLB-AP3-31-05-006). Back
16
Committee Ref: A218, Bus interchange to the south of Romford
Station (HAVGLB-AP3-31-05-007). Back
17
Committee Ref: A218, Location of possible southern entrance to
the station (HAVLB-AP3-31-05-008). Back
18
Committee Ref: A218, Undertakings originally proposed by London
Borough of Havering (HAVLB-AP3-31-05-009). Back
19
Committee Ref: A218, Para 7450 (HC 837-xxvi) (HAVLB-AP3-31-05-010). Back
20
Committee Ref: A218, Para 16553 (HAVLB-AP3-31-05-011). Back
21
Committee Ref: A218, Correspondence from CLRL to London Borough
of Havering, 13 September 2006 (HAVLB-AP3-31-05-012). Back
22
Committee Ref: A218, Proposed Romford Station Walk Times from
Bus Stop to Platfoms (HAVLB-AP3-31-05-013). Back
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