Examination of Witnesses (Questions 19100
- 19119)
19100. Mr Straker: No, I do not wish
to re-examine, thank you very much, sir. I do not know whether
you, sir, or your colleagues have any questions for the witness?
19101. Chairman: Thank you very much,
Mr Thomas.
19102. Mr Straker: Thank you very much,
Mr Thomas.
The witness withdrew
19103. Mr Straker: Sir, I have no further
evidence that I wish to call before you.
19104. Mr Mould: Sir, I would like to
ask Mr Berryman, if it is convenient, to explain one or two points
in relation to the interim decision proposal we put forward in
the light of some of the concerns.
19105. Chairman: I think that is advisable.
I was going to ask you to call him anyway.
19106. Mr Mould: I am glad we think the
same way on that.
Mr Keith Berryman, Recalled
Re-examined by Mr Mould
19107. Mr Mould: You are familiar to
everybody in the room, I think, so I do not need to introduce
you again. Mr Fry, please, can we have up the Petitioner's exhibit
05-004.[26]
Mr Berryman, here we see the south side of the Romford station
structure, yes?
(Mr Berryman) Yes.
19108. And there is the existing substandard
ramp giving access to the structure at this point. Can you just
take the Committee through, please, what the current position
is in relation to the use of that ramp, and what is now being
proposed by Crossrail in response to the Committee's interim decision
in July?
(Mr Berryman) The ramp at present runs up to
a door just here, where there is a bell which the passengers can
ring and someone will come and open the door. I think the opening
time is variable, but we estimate on average it is two or three
minutes for that to happen. This ramp, which is actually quite
steep, people can get up there and ring the bell and go in and
from the level that they get to when they have gone through the
door, there are ramps up to the platform, so it does provide a
substandard MIP access.
19109. Can we please then turn, Mr Fry, to 14704-060.[27]
Just to orientate ourselves, this is a computer-generated image
showing the basic structure of the proposed new station and we
see here the existing Victorian structures which support the main
line and the branch line, the local lines I should say, and the
existing ramp enters the station structure at this point here,
does it not?
(Mr Berryman) That is correct,
yes. Behind the large brick above the structure.
19110. And there is a passageway at high level,
is that right?
(Mr Berryman) An intermediate level passageway,
yes, which goes under the platforms and allows people to get between
the platforms.
19111. Those who are able to enter the station
on request at this point, they enter behind the existing gatelines,
is that correct?
(Mr Berryman) That is correct, yes. The idea
of the person coming to open the gate is not that he just opens
the gate, he also checks the tickets.
19112. By reference to this image, tell the
Committee what is proposed by Crossrail both in terms of engineering
works and also the operation for the new arrangements for the
proposed ramp.
(Mr Berryman) What we proposed to do is to
build a new ramp which meets modern standards on the access ability
requirement, basically that means it is a shadow of gradient and
has resting points where people can rest. There is not sufficient
room to put it where the existing ramp is because the length is
not long enough to get the required gradient. Inevitably, it would
be too steep, so what we are planning to do is to put it behind
there with a dog leg in it so that the bottom of the ramp is almost
level with the top of the ramp, in plan I should say, and it rises
up in two legs. It runs that way and then that way.
19113. So under the new arrangements you get
fully a compliant journey from ground level up to the entrance,
yes?
(Mr Berryman) Correct.
19114. And then what happens?
(Mr Berryman) Then it is exactly the same as
happens now, someone comes and lets you in and then you go through
this corridor and up one of the ramps to get you to the relevant
platform.
19115. The point made by the borough council
is, why can the operational arrangements not be changed so as
to provide, I think it described as a ticket barrier, ticketing
facilities and so forth so one does not have to request entry
from a member of staff at this point, one can come through with
the wonders of modern technology, Oyster cards and so on?
(Mr Berryman) The first thing to say is that
passageway is relatively narrow and to fit the number of gatelines
in there that you would need to have a meaningful access which
would be quite difficult. One obvious point is, as this is a PRM
access, you would need to have a gate to allow wheelchair users
in and that would take up a significant proportion of the width.
In addition, gatelines have to be manned all the time, all the
time they are open anyway, and so that would require facilities
for someone to stand there in a little hut or something like that
and it would be imposing an operational burden on the railway
permanently.
19116. So the existing arrangements in that
respect will continue, but in so far as the proposed new station
is concerned, as a matter of generality, I think we have explained
that access can be made through the main proposed station entrance
and then fully-compliant facilities for people of restricted mobility.
(Mr Berryman) Indeed. There
are DDA accesses from the north, in any event, through the gateline
here and up the lifts, and there is a direct lift from the concourse
level up to platform level. This is for the eastbound platform
and this is for the westbound platform on the station, so there
would be a direct link from this level to the platform.
19117. I pointed out the exchange you had with
the Chairman last time and our willingness to carry out further
detailed work here to see if we can provide access.
(Mr Berryman) Yes. I think
it is worth pointing out that our focus over the period when we
were preparing the additional provision was on designing those
works for which an additional provision is required. Putting an
entrance in here is something which will not require an additional
provision, it is something that we can agree in the course of
the detailed planning negotiations with the local authority, so
we have not really done very much about this. We have focused
primarily on the ramp and preparing the additional provision for
that ramp.
19118. The only other matter I wanted you to
touch on is the more ambitious aspiration of the Council, which
they repeated today, to drive a new entrance through this structure,
if you call it that. [28]
(Mr Berryman) Yes, I think there
are a number of issues to talk about, but basically the same things
that we spoke about in the summer. There are planning, architectural
layout problems with it in terms of getting the people in through
here, how you deal with them, getting access to the escalators
and so on, but the main problem which concerned me is the structural
issue of how we make a hole through this structure. It is worth
briefly explaining how this works: this buttress structure is
rather like a viaduct sitting on its side so if you imagine that
earth or rubble, or whatever is inside this abutment structure,
is exerting pressure in that direction then what that is being
resisted by is the arch action of these ribs here, these arches
here. So you can imagine the earth pressure is trying to push
it out and the arches are resisting it. The load from those arch
actions is actually passed down through the buttresses in a sort
of diagonal way. In addition, at the top of these buttresses you
have got arches which support the structure of both, the railway,
the station platforms, so the very end of these nibs here is under
tremendous force, particularly at the bottom because they are
resisting both the horizontal force from the vertical force and
it is breaking through those which would be the thing which causes
us concern. In addition, the existing ramp structure is providing
significant deadweight at the bottom of that abutment structure
which, we think, is helping to resist those lateral forces. This
is one of those areas where analysis is extremely difficult. It
is a sort of thing where experienced engineers would look at it
and say, "Do not do it, it is too difficult". I am not
saying it cannot be done, very few things in engineering are physically
impossible; it is a question of how much money you throw at it,
how many resources and what risks you take. Because I knew I was
appearing here today I went around to all our most senior advisers,
one or two extremely eminent engineers, just to check I was not
misleading the Committee and they were all of like view to me,
that this is not an acceptable route to take.
19119. Just coming back—
(Mr Berryman) Sorry, before you start, can
I just explain, this lot here is providing some deadweight at
the foot of this structure which, we believe, is helping to resist
lateral movement by these arches. Removing that would be a high
risk strategy. If we were to do this I would not try to knock
a hole through here, I would want to replace this whole structure
which is obviously a very big job.
26 Committee Ref: A218, Romford Station-Existing southern
ramp (HAVGLB-AP3-31-05-004). Back
27
Crossrail Ref: P139, Preferred Option Aerial View of the Ticket
Hall (HAVGLB-14704-060). Back
28
Committee Ref: A218, Romford Station-Existing southern ramp (HAVGLB-AP3-31-05-004). Back
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