Examination of Witnesses (Questions 19700
- 19719)
19700. It is certainly the shortest answer.
Can you recall why you were so emphatic in saying no?
(Dr Hunt) The first thing
is that the left-hand curve is in octave bands, not third octave
bands, and if we were to look at the kind of zigzaggediness of
the third octave band curve you can imagine that they would begin
to approach the levels we are concerned about. We also have to
bear in mind that there are two sorts of errors. There are random
errors about the mean and then there is error of the mean. The
zigzaggediness that we see in the right-hand graphs is about the
mean and basically the plus or minus 5dB on their own. For the
errors in the mean, I would like to see the statistics of that
error based on a priori measurements of a number of sites
around London, including the worst predictions as well as the
best ones. My concern is that that particular set of data does
not really help us understand the likely errors.
19701. On a plus or minus 10dB your view is
that plus or minus 10dB is a good working tool, if I can describe
it in that way. The Promoter says it is plus or minus 5dB, so
there is that difference between you. You said in answer to my
friend's question that you had come to that conclusion (that is,
plus or minus 10dB as a good working tool) based on your reading
on the subject; your attendance at conferences, either as a listener
or a participator, I imagine; your own model; and inter-model
comparisons. That is the background and your answer to that question.
Then my friend picked on your model and said that your model does
not have certain characteristics which are in the Findwave model.
In order to come to the conclusion of your plus or minus 10dB,
could you have come to that conclusion without reference to your
Findwave model; that is, based on your reading, conferences and
inter-model comparisons?
(Dr Hunt) Indeed. I reached
that conclusion many years ago. In fact, I gave up on the possibility
of producing a good predictive model because I did not think it
was worth doing. It was never going to be possible to make predictions
of sufficient accuracy, so I have now concentrated on developing
a model, the Pipe-in-Pipe model, which does its best to display
usefully the physics of what goes on around tunnels and to help
others develop their models by acting as, if you like, a ground
base by which other models can be compared. That really is the
purpose of the Pipe-in-Pipe model. There is another graph as well.
I do not know whether Simon Kahn is going to talk about that later.
19702. Chairman: I think you have made
the point.
(Dr Hunt) Okay.
19703. Mr Newberry: Just to stay with
the point about the source of your learning and the conclusion
you have reached from it, in terms of Findwave has there been
any inter-model comparison in the academic and engineering world
whereby Findwave has been validated by inter-model comparison?
(Dr Hunt) I have not seen
that in published literature. In my reading, from what I have
seen Findwave has been validated against measured data. Unfortunately
that does not really help us to know whether the model itself
is robust, because inter-model comparisons are extremely telling.
If two people disagree,—it is a bit like that wonderful
bit in Apollo 13 where they are getting their slide rules
out and five people all have to get the same answer before the
coordinates are beamed up to Apollo so they can set the gyroscopes.
They have to get five engineers to agree on the same answer and
if they disagree they have to do the calculation again. That is
the way we do things if we want precise answers: we get several
different sets of engineers to agree and then we have confidence.
19704. I want to understand the significance
of your observation relating to Findwave and measured data. What
is the significance of that point you are making, please?
(Dr Hunt) I have always
believed that making a measurement and having a model to compare
with that measurement is a spot check which says that this model
works for that set of conditions. The hugely important thing about
doing a cross-model comparison is this. I was at a conference
about ten or 12 or 14 years ago where we were invited to enter
into a benchmarking test where there was an agreed set of data.
From memory, I think there were 81 different runs that we had
to do for our computer models and we had to produce various outputs
for the models. The variation from those models was enormous.
It really just sends the message that no matter how confident
you are in your model there will be disagreement. This benchmarking
process is very important. At the time I did not have a model
which I could use to participate in that process, but had I had
a model at the time I would have participated. That benchmarking
process is available, published and it makes very sombre reading.
19705. Chairman: We are going to have
an adjournment for five minutes.
(After a short break)
19706. Mr Newberry: Ms Humphrey, could
you give your name to the Committee, please.
(Ms Humphrey) I am Carole
Humphrey. I am managing director of Grand Central Sound Studios.
I will try to be brief. I have no graphs; the only exhibit I have
is myself.
Ms Carol Humphrey, sworn
Examined by Mr Newberry
19707. Chairman: Excellent.
19708. Mr Newberry: How long ago did
you found the company?
(Ms Humphrey) In 1990. We
built the first set of studios in 1994, so we have been in business
13 years. We built our first set of studios in Marshall Street
in Soho and we built the second set of studios whilst operating
the first set of studios in Great Marlborough Street over the
last few years. We have to be in Soho—we have no choice
in the matter at all—because that is where our client base
works. I think that is something my business partner was trying
to explain this morning. Perhaps I could touch on why. Basically,
we are in Great Marlborough Street, in the middle of two video
post facilities, one of which got an Oscar for Gladiator
and one of which did Walking on Dinosaurs. We are opposite
Marks and Spencer, so we are handily based for our client base.
Last Friday, a client came in. They were re-mixing a Max Factor
television commercial. The client came in and sat down. She and
I had a chat, like you do, and she said to me, "I'm going
go down into the studio and I'm going to get this done in half
an hour—maybe Ivor can do it in 20 minutes. I am then going
to get you to send a Wi-file"—which is an electronic
audio file—"to The Frame Store, the people who do Walking
with Dinosaurs and Max-Factor, and, whilst they are laying
out that sound to the new cut of the pictures of this Max-Factor
commercial, I am going to nip over the road to Marks and Spencer
and buy dinner for tonight and I will have a cab pick me up from
here in 40 minutes." And she did it. That is the thrust of
why we have to be in Soho, because she could do all the things
she needed to do in a productive, timely fashion. She did not
have to go anywhere, she literally had to walk over the road to
the video post facility, back down the road to Marks and Spencer,
get in a cab and go home.
19709. Chairman: It may sound unbelievable
to some but I know that to be correct. I once met an old lady
who said that when she died she wanted to be cremated and her
dust sprinkled in Marks and Spencer because that was the only
way her daughters would ever visit her!
(Ms Humphrey) That is so
sad. That is terrible. That is awful.
19710. It is terrible. I get the gist of your
argument.
(Ms Humphrey) Yes. Basically
there are lots of video post facilities in Soho and there are
lots of film-makers' facilities in Soho. The reason there are
film-makers' facilities in Soho is because when Alexander Calder
decided to get into motion pictures just after the First World
War he set up an office in Warbrook Street. It was because it
was close to the theatres. In the square mile roughly that is
Soho, there are loads of video post houses, loads of audio post
production studios, loads of film editors, and there are places
that specialise in computer graphics—and all within walking
distance. I have a client who books her sound with us—she
produces Nike TV and cinema commercials—and she would rather
work with the Mill, which is one second down the road, than walk
to Rushes, which is seven minutes away. You could say she was
lazy. You could say she was saving time. Going back to your earlier
point, we will lose business if we are not in Soho because there
are other places that are in Soho that make it more convenient,
if they can go and do their pictures over the road and come back
and do the same somewhere else. Our clients get nose bleeds if
they go north of Oxford Street!
19711. Chairman: Is there anything you
would like to add to that, Mr Newberry?
19712. Mr Newberry: Not to that. I would
like to ask you another question in relation to the situation
if the company has to close. If what your experts are telling
you in terms of noise impact during the ten months that Crossrail
is being constructed happens and your business closes—and
as the Promoter would have it, with no compensation—what
is going to happen?
(Ms Humphrey) The highly
paid experts—and this is costing us a lot of money and we
are only a little company—to be here today and possibly
tomorrow, if things do not get a move on—it is costing us
a fortune.
19713. Do not talk about my fee.
(Ms Humphrey) Actually,
Mr Elvin said I could not afford him! Fundamentally we are going
to go out of business. We have a responsibility. One of the reasons
I am here—because I do not want to spend a huge amount of
time taking up more of your time really—is because I owe
it to myself, my business partner and the 23 other people who
work for Grand Central to give this our best shot. A client rang
me up on Saturday morning and told me how fantastic my staff are
and what a fantastic job they have done on a very problematical
piece of work and how they have stayed there until the bitter
end to make sure that stuff got on air in South America. We do
not just work for the UK; the work we do goes all over the world.
We have been working on a Nike job for a spot for Ronaldinho that
is running in South America and we stayed up until goodness knows
when at night to make sure that that hit its air dates in Mexico,
Brazil and somewhere else. When you have someone ringing you up
to say, "Well done! What a fantastic job," I think to
myself that I need to stand up and be counted here. I would never
forgive myself if this all went wrong and I had not said what
I feel about my company. And I feel very strongly about my company.
19714. Mr Taylor: Sir, on the basis of
that evidence, I am tempted to ask questions about my learned
friend's fee but I will resist that temptation. Ms Humphrey, can
you help me with this. Mr Ivor Taylor said that before moving
into the premises you rang up Crossrail and were told that the
project would not be built.
(Ms Humphrey) Yes, I was.
19715. Did you instruct your solicitors to—
(Ms Humphrey) No, basically
I rang up and I spoke to a guy called Ian Rathbone. I do not know
whether he still works at Crossrail or not. I asked him what was
going on with Crossrail. I explained exactly what our circumstances
were and he said it was not something that should concern us because
it would never be built. I said that was quite interesting and
obviously quite reassuring and I asked him to put it on the record
and he would not do so, and I am not really surprised.
19716. Before you purchased the property—
(Ms Humphrey) We did not
purchase the property, Mr Taylor. We have an assignment of a lease.
19717. Before you attained your interest in
the property, your solicitors did not write to Crossrail to seek
written confirmation that the project would not proceed.
(Ms Humphrey) I am not aware
of that.
19718. When the studio was being designed, what
information did you procure from Crossrail as to the likely groundfloor
noise abatement?
(Ms Humphrey) I did not
procure anything. Can I explain something here? I think Mr Taylor
has got hold of the wrong end of the stick really. I run the company
and I employ people like White Mark to do the procuring of noise
information. That is not my field of expertise. We have every
faith in White Mark: they have built us and we have been working
with them since the 1980s. I have built 20-odd recording studios
in my life and we hire professionals to sort that information
out for us, because we have to stick to what we are good at. What
I am good at is running the company. I make radio commercials
from time to time, I clear music for radio and TV commercials
from time to time, but I do not design recording studios—although
I do choose the fabric colour that goes in them.
19719. Those are all the questions I have.
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