Examination of Witnesses (Questions 21260
- 21279)
21260. Assume the need to relocate. I mentioned
that we have referred to Middle Dock and to South Dock in responding
to Mr Cartwright's organisation last week. What is the position
insofar as this particular vessel is concerned?
(Mr Berryman) We understand that the water
draught in the channel which connects the Middle Dock to the South
Dock—I can show you on this (it is very difficult without
a projector but it is this little bit here—is actually quite
shallow and only about 2.5 metres deep.[12]
That is our understanding. If that is the case it would not necessarily
be possible to get the SS Robin through that channel. There
is another location in South Dock in the area just marked here
which would be adjacent to the footbridge which runs across the
dock, which would be another potential location. I think what
we would do is agree to work with the SS Robin and British
Waterways Board and Canary Wharf, and others, to find a location
which, as far as possible, is as accessible as the location which
the Robin has now. Clearly, it cannot be quite as good
but as close as we can get to that. There are quite a number of
options we can continue to discuss. It would be fair to say the
SS Robin is strongly supported, as I think the Petitioners
said, by British Waterways Board and, also, by Canary Wharf, and
I think there is a strong desire to find an appropriate location.
21261. Just one other question: reference has
been made to the historic value of the ship, and the Committee
will remember that in relation to buildings of historic value
we have given a number of commitments about the process we will
undertake to protect those buildings from any adverse effects.
Is there a commitment we can give to the Committee in relation
to this vessel in that respect?
(Mr Berryman) Obviously, the same commitments
do not apply, for obvious reasons, but I think the same principles
would apply, that we would take all necessary steps to ensure
that the safety of the vessel was maintained, if the vessel has
to be moved as a result of our works.
21262. Presumably, in that respect, we would
consult closely with the Petitioners as the custodians of the
vessel to ensure that the appropriate steps were taken.
(Mr Berryman) Indeed, indeed, and any other
appropriate body which needed to have input there.
21263. Mr Mould: Thank you very much.
Cross-examined by Mr Kampfner
21264. Mr Kampfner: Sir, we are still
unclear as to whether it is a done deed that West India Dock will
be drained and we will have to move.
(Mr Berryman) It is a done deal.
21265. Am I able to seek guidance from British
Waterways on this?
(Mr Berryman) By all means.
21266. Chairman: I am afraid they are
not here now; you will have to take Mr Berryman, at the moment,
who is the Chief Executive of Crossrail.
21267. Mr Kampfner: West India Dock from
the west side of the DLR Bridge will be retained?
(Mr Berryman) Either the whole of West India
Dock will be drained to half its depth—so there would be
about 5 metres of water in the bottom of it—or the whole
of the dock with the exception of the small area at the very west
end will be fully drained. That small area at the west end will
be used as a silt lagoon for the storage of silt material dredged
from the bottom of the dock.
21268. And this is agreed?
(Mr Berryman) These are the powers we are seeking
under this Bill.
21269. That is different from being agreed.
I am not a politician, I do not understand the difference, but—
21270. Chairman: Mr Kampfner, you are
here to give your views as a Petitioner. We are listening to what
you say and then we will make a decision in the light of the Petition
you have made.
21271. Mr Kampfner: I understand. From
our point of view, we would argue very strongly that the draining
of West India Dock to the west side of the DLR bridge would be
nothing short of disastrous for ourselves and for other stakeholders,
but we are only here today to represent ourselves. If there is
any way the Committee can see another solution we would plead
for that, because Middle Dock—we would argue that we can
still find a way through to Middle Dock—would be an alternative.
There are issues about the oxygenation plant in Middle Dock, which
I believe would accelerate corrosion, but I understand there are
ways of mitigating against that effect. South Dock would be extremely
impactable on us negatively. I do not believe that we could continue
the project as is if we were going to South Quay.
21272. Chairman: Is Middle Dock an option
or not?
(Mr Berryman) My understanding is that there
is an issue about whether they can get into Middle Dock, but we
are very happy to explore that further and do a detailed survey.
21273. Chairman: If you could examine
that and keep us informed.
(Mr Berryman) We certainly will, yes. As I
said earlier, we are committed to working with the Petitioner
and British Waterways Board and other parties to find an adequate
solution to this.
21274. Chairman: You realise, Mr Kampfner,
the position which you have been given today is the Promoter's
position; that is what they say is necessary for them to deliver
Crossrail. You are here as a Petitioner saying you do not think
that is a good idea, you do not agree with it or you want something
else doing instead. We are asking Mr Berryman to see whether this
Middle Dock solution is possible.
21275. Mr Kampfner: Thank you, sir.
21276. Mrs Kampfner: I would just like
to add, I think the real issue is going to be that if the proposed
works are a minimum of three and possibly up to five years and
that we have to relocate in an area which is not conducive to
continuing the development of both the volunteer programme and
the schools programme that we have spent the last five years building,
then I think the continuation of how we operate is seriously in
jeopardy. We have spent five years building something from nothing
based on being berthed in that dock, and to start again somewhere
else is just not possible.
21277. Chairman: Can I ask you both a
question? If you did get Lottery funding for fitting a new hull,
how long would that take to complete?
21278. Mr Kampfner: We believe that the
work may take a year. Most of these things usually overrun. Once
the budget was put in place it would be, at least, a year from
now to agree that budget, were we to be in a position to submit
the bid.
21279. Chairman: And then for the work
to be carried out a further year?
12 Crossrail Ref: P155, Crossrail Isle of Dogs Station-Site
Plan (Scenario 1) (TOWHLB-325-04-016). Back
| 
