Examination of Witnesses (Questions 40-42)
SIR SUMA
CHAKRABARTI KCB, MR
MARK LOWCOCK,
MS NEMAT
SHAFIK AND
MS SUE
OWEN
11 JULY 2006
Q40 Chairman: In these fragile state
areas are issues of corruption, security, fraud and so forth.
In the DRC we had problems with the roads programme and I do not
know whether you have managed to resolve that or where you are.
We have had debate—and I raised it in the Liaison Committee—about
Afghanistan and Iraq and the extent to which you have been asked
to do an aid programme in a very difficult security situation,
and monitoring and supervision is difficult. How are you going
to keep tabs, because it is not going to help anybody if substantial
aid money goes into these areas but does not reach the people?
Sir Suma Chakrabarti: I think
we are coming to the end of the session but I am glad we touched
on this. This is one of the biggest concerns of the four of us:
quality assurance around programmes in these very difficult places
like Iraq and Afghanistan. There are a number of issues. The security
one in a place like Basra. In Basra two years ago you could get
things done. UK staff could get out and about, monitor, supervise
and do that sort of thing. That is very difficult now, in fact
virtually impossible, and it makes the quality of the programme
more difficult to deliver. Afghanistan is a bit better, except
if you go to Helmand and then it is the same sort of issues. Beyond
that, governance, policy issues, it is very difficult to get a
dialogue going if you cannot get out and see what is happening
and go to the ministries and have that sort of dialogue. We have
lots of second best-type of solutions, and Nemat and her team
have been very creative in finding these but they are second,
third and fourth best solutions and they are not the solutions
we would really like to have.
Ms Owen: It is not just about
whether we can monitor where the money goes. Sometimes it is a
real practical issue of how we get the money there. You are talking
about cash certainly in Afghanistan and Iraq. There is very little
electronic transfer of money available, so you have got immediately
a risk of money simply being stolen.
Ms Shafik: There is an issue of
effectiveness. If you look at our portfolio, our worst performing
projects are in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Sir Suma Chakrabarti: Which is
not surprising. All of us pay tribute to our staff who are working
in those very difficult situations. The fact we have some quality
programme is due to them and their courage.
Chairman: We also appreciate there is
a political reason for you being there which you might not have
chosen. We have to take on board that creates difficulties.
Q41 Ann McKechin: There is concern,
particularly among the NGO community, and particularly in Afghanistan,
over the link with the military operation. I can understand the
principles, behind it but I think it is whether or not there is
the ability to protect civilian workers working both for DFID
and NGO projects which may be sponsored by DFID, and whether we
are taking into account their concerns.
Ms Shafik: By sheer coincidence
I was speaking with our team in Kabul this morning. We held a
meeting with all the NGOs operating in Afghanistan this week,
14 of them, to identify what their concerns are. Their major concern
was they did not want to be very associated with the military
operation or with the Government of Afghanistan. We have compiled
a list of seven or eight key concerns they have in order to be
able to operate more effectively and we are going to do the best
we can to enable that.
Q42 Chairman: Their judgment was
that was a better security than being protected. I do not think
we should pursue that. Thank you very much. There may be one or
two questions we have not got around to which we may put to you
in writing. This has been a good session and I hope it benefits
you. We will produce a report on this.
Sir Suma Chakrabarti: Thank you
very much. We take this very seriously. It has been a good session
for us too and gives a heads up on a number of the issues you
want to pursue. We are always happy to answer your questions and
we will send you written answers to the questions you asked.
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