Select Committee on Public Accounts Minutes of Evidence


Comments from Dr Anthony Nowlan on the evidence session

Question 1

  As regards the two reasons for the delays:

    (i)  Supplier difficulty—if there are now difficulties, what was tested in the technical proofs conducted in 2003?

    (ii)  Clinicians want to pilot—this was obvious in early 2003 but would have been an obstacle to contracting.

Question 5

  In early 2003 senior representatives from the Royal College of Radiologists (contact Peter Dawson) were clear that if the money was available PACS could be deployed and this would improve radiology services. PACS is a well-understood product. They were also clear however that the care record was vital for all, because they want to share care, not just images.

Question 6

  The NHS has had demographic databases for many years prior to CfH. The NHAIS/Exeter system and the National Strategic Tracing Service. The NHAIS system remains the bedrock of most of the business processes that maintain the database.

  The NHS has had a secure network for many years prior to CfH. The new network may well be an improvement, but it is not a transformation.

Question 7

  "What we want is a system that works rather than a system which is put in quickly for its own sake". Then why was the procurement rushed through without adequate consideration of what is required or how it would be implemented?

Question 8

    (i)  How can something be value for money if it does not yet exist let alone work? The answer confuses value and reducing prices.

    (ii)  The answer equates central procurement with the delivery of a common approach to the management of healthcare information across the NHS.

Question 11

  This was happening prior to CfH. There have been technology upgrades but no major developments in healthcare/business services such as a core health record.

Question 14

  These are only financial obligations, and say nothing about the likelihood of delivering any healthcare benefit.

Question 15

  Because PACS has a well-established commercial model based on the impact on radiology departments alone. This is not the case for the bulk of what is proposed under the care record work.

Question 22

  I met informally with the NAO at its request and the question of reviewing the report was discussed. I have provided further information at [inset ref to note 4].

Question 26

  What was the "structured requirements-evaluation process" and what is the evidence that it was fit for purpose and would produce a meaningful result against which it was safe to proceed?

  On the point of patient involvement. I appointed a head of Patient and Citizen Relations at the NHSIA in 2000 (Marlene Winfield). In the context of NPfIT, a Patient Advisory Group was established by myself and Marlene Winfield in early 2003. I think two meetings were held before I left. They considered the same proposals as the Clinical Care Advisory Group.

  As regards people having significant amounts of time: I ran a recruitment in early 2003 to build a clinical team intended to support the clinical development.

Question 30

  This completely supports my contention that the procurement was run without credible consideration to what was being proposed. These are exactly the sorts of complex issues that it was known would arise. It is extraordinary that it has take so long to admit this.

Question 31

  GPs were being paid before NPfIT. The bedrock of this was the Exeter system. QMAS was implemented by the Exeter team that was at the time part of the NHS Information Authority. All of this would have happened with or without NPfIT.

Question 61

  Neither of whom were there at the time.

Question 64

  They should be asked to produce the evidence that what was done (consultation or whatever) was an appropriate basis on which to commit the future of the NHS.

  It was obvious to anyone with any knowledge at all of primary care that the idea of LSPs replacing all the GP systems with brand new systems was madness. It was neither needed nor possible. Yet, at the time, there were boasts of putting EMIS out of business.

Question 65

  Unfortunately the contracts have been let and the NHS committed to a course of action.

Question 114

  The project in the NHS is an end-to-end project. It is not acceptable to make these artificial distinctions between CfH and the local NHS. That helps no one.

Question 115

  This is a major fallacy. The only risk pushed on to the suppliers is financial. All the healthcare risks of the NHS not working remain with the NHS and the public.

Question 117

  The main risks are over can "it" work at all regardless of time and money. The programme has to all practical purposes had unlimited money (it has given money back) and has had all the time (it is 2.5 years late) but it has not produced a care record.

Question 118

  Users of what? The care record does not exist.

Question 126

  The commercial suppliers and the NHS in many areas are competing for the same skills.

Question 195

  I did not state that "no clinicians were involved in the OBS". I state that the process that created the OBS, including involvement of clinicians, what not appropriate for the scale and nature of the resultant commitment. I have addressed the specific accusations in Mr Granger's answer in Ev .

Question 217 (Mr Granger) (also see Ev )

  This is a most serious representation of the state of the programme. Firstly I was removed from the programme and not `lost' as explained in Ev . Secondly, I don't know who can recall events because none of the clinical witnesses, or any of the others apart from Mr Granger was there at the time. The reference to Sir Muir Gray's work is a complete distraction: it has nothing to do with the events we are addressing.

Question 217 (Dr Braunold)

  This is the real tragedy. There was a consensus document in March 2003. Subsequent events wrecked that consensus and associated trust, before Dr Braunold joined the programme. Dr Braunold and others are now trying to rebuild that consensus and trusts. Unfortunately, the document to which she refers states in it's opening paragraph:

  "Now that the architecture for England has been commissioned, designed and being built, there is a need for clarity concerning how it will be used by people using the NHS and those working in the NHS".[21]

  ie It is all back to front because the contracts have been let.






21   Connecting for Health, The clinical development of the NHS care records service (2005). Back


 
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