Examination of Witnesses (Questions 60-65)
DEPARTMENT FOR
EDUCATION AND
SKILLS & LEARNING
AND SKILLS
COUNCIL
Q60 Mr Bacon: But you would say that
the reluctance that is portrayed in this Report is now hopefully
out of date?
Mr Haysom: That would be overstating
it, I think.
Q61 Mr Bacon: That 300 number, this
Report came out in October, what would it have been at the time
of the Report, so seven months ago?
Mr Haysom: I do have a note of
that somewhere.
Q62 Mr Bacon: A lot less, was it?
Mr Haysom: Yes, under half of
that, and the thing to watch here is not just the number of colleges
who are joining a consortium, but actually the thing we have really
got to watch is the value of the spend that goes through there,
so what we need them to do is not just join, but then to make
sure that they are putting the purchasing for a whole range of
commodities through there, and that is another big part of the
task.
Q63 Mr Bacon: What is the ranking
from the good guys to the less-well-performing ones? What is the
ranking in terms of the proportion of their total spend which
goes through a consortium?
Mr Taylor: I think that is very
difficult to pin down because of different circumstances, but
you will find that the light user might take, say, the stationery
contracts, but not much else. The really clued-up college is probably
taking advantage of IT hardware contracts and of, say, recent
arrangements around insurance which can bring significant benefits
to those colleges which have signed up and, as you get more and
more sophisticated in the kind of commodity you are dealing with,
it takes longer and more effort for the college to take advantage
of the opportunity, but with insurance it is not simply a matter
of switching from an existing insurer to the new insurer, it is
kind of taking on board the different risk management systems
that they need to apply, whereas for stationery the contract is
really quite simple.
Q64 Mr Bacon: We found that OGCbuying.solutions,
and we learned it not so long ago, I forget the exact percentage,
but something like 85% of the framework agreements that worked
out had hardly anything going through them and the vast majority
of business that had been done was through a relatively small
number of the agreements. Is that effectively how it is working
here with these various consortia?
Mr Haysom: I think it is early
days, is it not, as Ian says, but I think all of our experience
would tell you that there are quick and easy wins and then it
gets more difficult from that point on, so inevitably you are
going to see a few commodity lines being exploited to begin with.
I have to say, to get to that saving, I do not think we are going
to need much more than just those few big wins across the whole
piece. I think we will get there on that, but that of course will
not be enough, which goes back to some of the very early questions
as to whether the target should be greater, and I would say that
we will be able to demonstrate very clearly that there is more
to be had here once the lower-hanging fruit is taken.
Mr Bacon: Thank you very much.
Q65 Chairman: Well, gentlemen, thank
you very much. Often these hearings can be quite difficult, but
I think it has been a very positive hearing and I think it shows
the role the National Audit Office is in fact playing in Whitehall
in trying to encourage good practice. Clearly, this case has been
a bit of a Cinderella area as far as governing bodies are concerned,
so although £75 million may not be a very demanding target,
if you can release £75 million, that is £75 million
going back into education—
Mr Haysom: Absolutely.
Chairman:— which is a very important
subject, and we are very grateful for what you have told us this
afternoon. Thank you very much.
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