Examination of Witnesses (Questions 100-107)
16 MAY 2007
HM REVENUE AND
CUSTOMS
Q100 Mr Williams: Well if you achieve
those targets, I am sure the CBI will strike you a medal and there
will be rejoicing.
Mr Gray: I was at their annual
dinner last night and I heard their appeals in that direction.
Mr Khan: More importantly the
then Prime Minister in 2011 will be giving you a medal.
Q101 Chairman: We have had this amalgamation
of the Revenue and the Customs and this was presented to us as
a sea change, a dramatic difference, customers were going to be
helped much more, the revenues were going to rise, costs would
be cut, but frankly the way you have described it this afternoon
it strikes me that your organisation, in terms of helping business,
is just moving forward at a snail's pace. Is this not a betrayal
of all the hopes that were raised at the time of the amalgamation?
What is your personal commitment to try to change the whole culture
of the two organisations you now head?
Mr Gray: My personal commitment
is very strong. I do not with respect accept the "snail's
pace". In the first two years we have managed a very complex
merger without—
Q102 Chairman: I do not deny that
there have been huge discussions and changes of deckchairs and
bureaucratic committees. I am not interested in what is going
on inside your two organisations; I am interested in the burden
placed on business, very heavy burdens in dealing with corporation
tax, VAT. I want you to tell me how the amalgamation of these
two great departments of state has actually improved things on
the ground for your customers.
Mr Gray: We have made significant
strides in the first two years; we have reduced cost to ourselves
and the taxpayers.
Q103 Chairman: You have reduced costs
to yourselves. That is precisely not answering my question.
Mr Gray: And costs to our customers.
We now have these targets which I am very keen to exceed.
Q104 Chairman: Well the targets,
as we have heard, are virtually derisory.
Mr Gray: That is why I am saying
I wish to exceed them.
Q105 Chairman: By how much are you
going to exceed them? As they are meaningless targets in any event,
tell us now what you are going to do.
Mr Gray: Setting my own targets
for the organisation is not the way things operate.
Q106 Chairman: Who is setting the
targets? Let us ask the Treasury what they are going to do to
try to have some meaningful targets.
Mr Gallaher: We will work with
the HMRC to ensure that they meet their objectives and setting
targets is a matter for discussion between HMRC and the Treasury.
Q107 Chairman: That is a complete
non-answer. Carry on Mr Gray.
Mr Gray: My summary is that I
think we have made a really good start on all those dimensions.
My commitment is to turn this into a much more effective organisation,
one that is easier to deal with. I am afraid I do not accept your
snail's pace description. When I finish this job, whenever it
is, I want to see all of those dimensions very significantly transformed
and that is my commitment.
Chairman: Good. Well I do not think we
are going to get any more out of you. Thank you very much Mr Gray.
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