House of Commons Public Bill Committee Proceedings

House of Commons

Session 2007 - 08
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Other Bills before Parliament

17

House of Commons

Thursday 8th May 2008

Public Bill Committee Proceedings

Counter-Terrorism Bill

[ninth and tenth Sittings]

Mr Tony McNulty

That the Order of the Committee [22nd April 2008] be amended as follows:In

paragraph (1)(e) leave out ‘1.00 p.m.’ and insert ‘2.00 p.m.’.

Agreed to

Mr Dominic Grieve

Mr Crispin Blunt

Patrick Mercer

Mr Elfyn Llwyd

Withdrawn  90

Clause  23,  page  16,  line  21,  leave out subsection (2) and insert—

‘(2)
Subject to subsections (3) to (6), a constable may question a person about a

related terrorism offence where the person has already been charged with, or been

officially informed that they may be prosecuted for, a terrorism offence.’.

Patrick Mercer

Mr Dominic Grieve

Mr Elfyn Llwyd

Not called  125

Clause  23,  page  16,  line  21,  leave out subsection (2) and insert—

‘(2A)
Subject to subsections (2B) to (2E) a constable may question a person about a

related terrorism offence where the person has already been charged with, or been

officially informed that they may be prosecuted for, a terrorism offence.

(2B)
A police officer of at least the rank of superintendent may make an application to

a judge of the High Court for permission to allow a constable to question a person

under subsection (2), if the police officer reasonably believes that the person may

be charged with a related terrorism offence.

(2C)
A judge may grant permission for further questioning under subsection (2) only

if satisfied by evidence that:

(a)
there are reasonable grounds for believing that the original charge was

appropriate to bring; and

(b)
it is in the interests of justice to allow further questioning in the

circumstances.

Public Bill Committee Proceedings: 8th May 2008
18

Counter-Terrorism Bill, continued

(2D)
Where a judge grants permission for further questioning under subsection (2C) he

shall make such directions as he considers appropriate with regard to:

(a)
the maximum permitted period for further questioning;

(b)
the total length of time over which further questioning is permitted; or

(c)
any other directions as required in the interests of justice.

(2E)
A related terrorism offence means a terrorism offence arising in whole or in part

from the same set of facts as the offence with which the person has already been

charged, or officially informed that they may be prosecuted.’.

Tom Brake

Mr David Heath

Withdrawn  14

Clause  23,  page  16,  line  25,  after ‘offence’, insert ‘, at any time up to the

commencement of the trial,’.

Mr Dominic Grieve

Mr Crispin Blunt

Patrick Mercer

Not called  91

Clause  23,  page  16,  line  26,  after ‘a’, insert ‘related’.

Tom Brake

Mr David Heath

Not selected  15

Clause  23,  page  16,  line  26,  leave out ‘or’ and insert ‘and’.

Tom Brake

Mr David Heath

Not called  17

Clause  23,  page  16,  line  32,  at end insert—

‘(iii)
has, after satisfying himself that the original charge was

appropriate and that further questioning would be in the interests

of justice, given authority for the constable to question the

person.’.

Mr Dominic Grieve

Mr Crispin Blunt

Patrick Mercer

Mr Elfyn Llwyd

Not called  92

Clause  23,  page  16,  line  32,  at end insert—

‘(3A)
A police officer of at least the rank of superintendent may make an application to

a judge of the High Court for permission to allow a constable to question a person

under subsections (2) and (3) above if the police officer believes that the person

may be charged with a related terrorism offence.

(3B)
A judge may grant permission for further questioning under subsection (2) and

(3) only if he is satisfied by evidence that—

(a)
there are reasonable grounds for believing that the original charge was

appropriate to bring;

(b)
it is in the interests of justice to allow further questioning in the

circumstances; and

(c)
that further questioning would not be oppressive.

Public Bill Committee Proceedings: 8th May 2008
19

Counter-Terrorism Bill, continued

(3C)
Where a judge grants permission for further questioning under subsection (3B) he

shall make such directions as he considers appropriate with regard to—

(a)
the maximum permitted period for further questioning;

(b)
the total length of time over which further questioning is permitted; or

(c)
any other directions in the interests of justice,


and these directions shall be subject to variation on application by either party to

the same court.

(3D)
A “related terrorism offence” means a terrorism offence arising in whole or in

part from the same set of facts as the offence with which the person has already

been charged, or officially informed that they may be prosecuted.’.

Tom Brake

Mr David Heath

Agreed to  16

Clause  23,  page  16,  line  34,  leave out ‘may’ and insert ‘must’.

Tom Brake

Mr David Heath

Mr Elfyn Llwyd

Not called  18

Clause  23,  page  16,  line  35,  at end insert—

‘(4A)
Codes of practice made under subsection (4) must include provision for—

(a)
questioning to take place only in the presence of a lawyer representing

the interests of the accused person;

(b)
a transcript to be made available to the judge authorising the questioning

under subsection (3);

(c)
the questioning to be subject to a video recording;

(d)
for the purpose of the questioning to be confined to questioning about

new evidence which has become available since the accused person was

charged; and

(e)
preventing oppressive questioning by specifying appropriate time limits.

(4B)
Prior to the commencement of the trial the judge must review any transcripts

made available to him under subsection (4A)(b) having regard to subsections

(4A)(d) and (e).’.

Tom Brake

Mr David Heath

Withdrawn  19

Clause  23,  page  17,  line  2,  leave out subsections (6) and (7).

Clause, as amended, Agreed to.

Clause 24 Agreed to.

Mr Dominic Grieve

Mr Crispin Blunt

Patrick Mercer

Not called  93

Clause  25,  page  17,  line  29,  after second ‘a’, insert ‘related’.

Public Bill Committee Proceedings: 8th May 2008
20

Counter-Terrorism Bill, continued

Mr Dominic Grieve

Mr Crispin Blunt

Patrick Mercer

Not called  97

Clause  25,  page  17,  line  29,  leave out subsection (2) and insert—

‘(2)
Subject to subsections (3) to (6), a constable may question a person about a

related terrorism offence where the person has already been charged with, or been

officially informed that they may be prosecuted for, a terrorism offence.’.

Tom Brake

Mr David Heath

Not called  21

Clause  25,  page  17,  line  32,  at end insert ‘, at any time up to the commencement of

the trial,’.

Tom Brake

Mr David Heath

Not called  22

Clause  25,  page  17,  line  32,  at end insert ‘, and

(c)
a judge of the Crown Court has, after satisfying himself that the original

charge was appropriate and that further questioning would be in the

interests of justice, given authority for the constable to question the

person.’.

Mr Dominic Grieve

Mr Crispin Blunt

Patrick Mercer

Mr Elfyn Llwyd

Not called  98

Clause  25,  page  17,  line  32,  at end insert—

‘(2A)
A police officer of at least the rank of superintendent may make an application to

a judge of the High Court for permission to allow a constable to question a person

under subsection (2) above if the police officer believes that the person may be

charged with a related terrorism offence.

(2B)
A judge may grant permission for further questioning under subsection (2) only

if he is satisfied by evidence that—

(a)
there are reasonable grounds for believing that the original charge was

appropriate to bring;

(b)
it is in the interests of justice to allow further questioning in the

circumstances; and

(c)
that further questioning would not be oppressive.

(2C)
Where a judge grants permission for further questioning under subsection (2B) he

shall make such directions as he considers appropriate with regard to—

(a)
the maximum permitted period for further questioning;

(b)
the total length of time over which further questioning is permitted; or

(c)
any other directions in the interests of justice,


and these directions shall be subject to variation on application by either party to

the same court.

(2D)
A “related terrorism offence” means a terrorism offence arising in whole or in

part from the same set of facts as the offencfe with which the person has already

been charged, or officially informed that they may be prosecuted.’.

Public Bill Committee Proceedings: 8th May 2008
21

Counter-Terrorism Bill, continued

Tom Brake

Mr David Heath

Agreed to  23

Clause  25,  page  17,  line  34,  leave out ‘may’ and insert ‘must’.

Tom Brake

Mr David Heath

Not called  24

Clause  25,  page  17,  line  36,  at end insert—

‘(3A)
Codes of practice made under subsection (3) must include provision for—

(a)
questioning to take place only in the presence of a lawyer representing

the interests of the accused person;

(b)
a transcript to be made available to the judge authorising the questioning

under subsection (3);

(c)
the questioning to be subject to a video recording;

(d)
for the purpose of the questioning to be confined to questioning about

new evidence which has become available since the accused person was

charged; and

(e)
preventing oppressive questioning by specifying appropriate time limits.

(3B)
Prior to the commencement of the trial the judge must review any transcripts

made available to him under subsection (3A)(b) having regard to subsections

(3A)(d) and (e).’.

Tom Brake

Mr David Heath

Not called  25

Clause  25,  page  18,  line  1,  leave out subsections (5) and (6).

Clause, as amended, Agreed to.

Mr Tony McNulty

Agreed to  135

Clause  26,  page  18,  line  38,  leave out from ‘things)’ to end of line 39.

Tom Brake

Mr David Heath

Withdrawn  26

Clause  26,  page  19,  line  11,  at end insert—

(e)
the common law offences of murder, manslaughter, culpable homicide,

kidnapping or abduction, in relation to an offence listed in subsection (1)

above.’.

Clause, as amended, Agreed to.

Public Bill Committee Proceedings: 8th May 2008
22

Counter-Terrorism Bill, continued

Mr Dominic Grieve

Mr Crispin Blunt

Withdrawn  166

Clause  27,  page  20,  line  17,  leave out subsection (4).

Mr Dominic Grieve

Mr Crispin Blunt

Not called  168

Clause  27,  page  20,  line  18,  leave out subsection (5).

Mr Tony McNulty

Agreed to  136

Clause  27,  page  20,  line  18,  at end insert—

‘( )
The power conferred by subsection (4) may be exercised so as to add offences to

subsection (2) or (3) only if it appears to the Secretary of State necessary to do so

for the purpose of dealing with terrorism.’.

Mr Dominic Grieve

Mr Crispin Blunt

Not called  167

Clause  27,  page  20,  line  19,  leave out subsection (6).

Patrick Mercer

Mr Dominic Grieve

Not called  126

Clause  27,  page  20,  line  19,  after ‘offence’, insert ‘with terrorism connections’.

Tom Brake

Mr David Heath

Withdrawn  50

Clause  27,  page  20,  line  20,  at end add—

‘(7)
Where this section applies to an offence committed in Scotland, proceedings may

only be taken in another part of the United Kingdom following consultation with,

and with the consent of, the Lord Advocate.’.

Clause, as amended, Agreed to.

Clause 28 Agreed to.

Mr Tony McNulty

Agreed to  76

Clause  29,  page  20,  line  32,  after ‘If’ insert ‘having regard to the material before it

for the purposes of sentencing’.

Tom Brake

Mr David Heath

Patrick Mercer

Mr Dominic Grieve

Mr Elfyn Llwyd

Not called  27

Clause  29,  page  20,  line  33,  leave out ‘court’ and insert ‘jury’.

Public Bill Committee Proceedings: 8th May 2008
23

Counter-Terrorism Bill, continued

Patrick Mercer

Mr Dominic Grieve

Mr Elfyn Llwyd

Not called  128

Clause  29,  page  20,  line  34,  after ‘and’, insert ‘the jury’.

Patrick Mercer

Mr Dominic Grieve

Mr Elfyn Llwyd

Not called  129

Clause  29,  page  20,  line  37,  leave out first ‘court’ and insert ‘jury’.

Tom Brake

Mr David Heath

Not called  28

Clause  29,  page  20,  line  37,  leave out ‘determines’ and insert ‘is satisfied beyond

reasonable doubt’.

Mr Dominic Grieve

Mr Crispin Blunt

Not moved  169

Clause  29,  page  20,  line  40,  leave out subsection (5).

Clause, as amended, Agreed to.

Clauses 30 and 31 Agreed to.

Mr Tony McNulty

Agreed to  137

Schedule  2,  page  71,  line  33,  leave out paragraph (b).

Schedule, as amended, Agreed to.

Mr Dominic Grieve

Mr Crispin Blunt

Withdrawn  170

Clause  32,  page  22,  line  1,  leave out from ‘used’ to ‘for’ in line 2.

Patrick Mercer

Mr Dominic Grieve

Not called  130

Clause  32,  page  22,  line  5,  leave out ‘or under their control’.

Mr Dominic Grieve

Mr Crispin Blunt

Not called  171

Clause  32,  page  22,  line  8,  leave out ‘or had reasonable cause to suspect’.