The
Committee consisted of the following
Members:
Blunt,
Mr. Crispin
(Reigate)
(Con)
Cairns,
David
(Minister of State, Scotland
Office)
Carmichael,
Mr. Alistair
(Orkney and Shetland)
(LD)
Carswell,
Mr. Douglas
(Harwich)
(Con)
Clarke,
Mr. Tom
(Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill)
(Lab)
Donohoe,
Mr. Brian H.
(Central Ayrshire)
(Lab)
Griffiths,
Nigel
(Edinburgh, South)
(Lab)
Hamilton,
Mr. David
(Midlothian)
(Lab)
Hollobone,
Mr. Philip
(Kettering)
(Con)
Kirkbride,
Miss Julie
(Bromsgrove)
(Con)
Lazarowicz,
Mark
(Edinburgh, North and Leith)
(Lab/Co-op)
McKechin,
Ann
(Glasgow, North)
(Lab)
Osborne,
Sandra
(Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock)
(Lab)
Reid,
Mr. Alan
(Argyll and Bute)
(LD)
Roy,
Mr. Frank
(Lord Commissioner of Her Majesty's
Treasury)
Strang,
Dr. Gavin
(Edinburgh, East)
(Lab)
Wallace,
Mr. Ben
(Lancaster and Wyre)
(Con)
David Weir, Committee
Clerk
attended the
Committee
Fourth
Delegated Legislation
Committee
Wednesday 21
November
2007
[Mr.
Mike Weir
in the
Chair]
Draft Criminal Proceedings etc. (Reform) (Scotland) Act 2007 (Powers of District and JP Courts) Order 2007
2.30
pm
The
Minister of State, Scotland Office (David Cairns):
I beg
to move,
That the
Committee has considered the draft Criminal Proceedings etc. (Reform)
(Scotland) Act 2007 (Powers of District and JP Courts) Order
2007.
I begin by
saying what a pleasure it is, as always, to serve under your
chairmanship, Mr. Weir, considering what I
hope is relatively straightforward and uncontentious
legislation.
The order
is made under section 104 of the Scotland Act 1998, which, as hon.
Members know, allows for necessary or expedient changes in consequence
of an Act of the Scottish Parliament. The order is made in consequence
of the Criminal Proceedings etc. (Reform) (Scotland)
Act 2007an Act of the Scottish Parliament that received Royal
Assent on 22 February 2007. The accompanying explanatory memorandum
states wrongly that Royal Assent was given on 27 February. I apologise
for that.
The Act
contains provisions to establish justice of the peace courts that will
gradually replace district courts in Scotland. Under the Act, many of
the cases that JPs currently deal with will not be handled in courts,
allowing JPs to hear more serious cases that are usually heard in
sheriff courts. To make that happen, the Act includes provisions to
improve the training and recruitment of JPs, and to introduce a system
of appraisal for JPs. The Act also gives Scottish Executive
Ministers the power to increase the custodial
sentencing power of JPs from two months to
six.
While the Act
makes provision within devolved competence to facilitate the transition
from district courts to JP courts, provision also needs to be made
under reserved law, which is why we are gathered here this afternoon.
The order makes available powers to impose sanctions under the Road
Traffic Offenders Act 1988. Currently, section 10(2) of that
Act prevents Scottish district courts from trying some offences
involving endorsement of driving licences unless they are fixed penalty
offences.
In addition,
section 50(b) of the 1988 Act provides that district courts cannot
impose disqualification from driving, except when there are 12
or more penalty points to be taken into
accountthe so-called totting-up of cases. Those restrictions
were put in place as it was previously considered that JPs were not
trained to a sufficient level to deal with such
cases.
In line with
the changes being made to the lay justice system in Scotland, the
Government and the Scottish Executive believe that it is only right
that JPs have all
the appropriate powers at their disposal when hearing cases before them.
The order therefore amends the 1988 Act to ensure that JPs can
disqualify drivers and endorse driving licences. The same powers will
also be made available to the remaining district courts to ensure that,
during the phased introduction of the JP courts, there are no regional
disparities between the sentences that can be
imposed.
Finally,
members of the Committee will have seen the
explanatory memorandum, which details the background to the policy. In
an unusual move, the Merits Committee praised the way in which the
previous Scottish Executive developed the policy in response to public
consultation.
I hope
the Committee agrees that the order is a sensible use of powers under
the 1998 Act and that the practical result will be welcome. I commend
the order to the
Committee.
2.33
pm
Mr.
Ben Wallace (Lancaster and Wyre) (Con): It is a pleasure
to serve under your chairmanship, Mr. Weir. I was always
taught that there was no such thing as a bad short speech, so I shall
just say that this is an entirely appropriate and in-order order. Her
Majestys official Opposition will not oppose it or press the
matter to a
Division.
2.34
pm
Mr.
Alan Reid (Argyll and Bute) (LD): It is a pleasure to
serve under your chairmanship, Mr.
Weir.
I,
too, support the order. The 2007 Act includes several provisions to
improve the training and recruitment of JPs, to change their terms of
appointment and to introduce a system of appraisal for JPs. In view of
those changes, it makes sense that JPs in the new JP courts and in the
surviving district courts should hear disqualification and obligatory
endorsement cases that are currently heard in sheriff
courts.
I have one
query for the Minister: why is it necessary for the order to come to
Westminster? That is the case under current legislation, but I ask the
Government to consider amending the 1998 Act so that the Scottish
Parliament may deal with such
matters.
Road traffic
legislation is correctly reserved to Westminster, and people should be
able to drive throughout Britain under the same rules and common
penalties. We do not want, for example, a repeat of the situation
whereby a driver can accumulate 11 points in Great Britain and 11 in
Northern Ireland and escape disqualification because he has not reached
12 points in one jurisdiction. However, the management of the courts
system is devolved to the Scottish Parliament, so surely it would make
sense for the Scottish Parliament to decide which court should deal
with various offences and
punishments.
It is
right that the alleged offence and the range of penalties are reserved
matters in law, but surely it would make sense for the Scottish
Parliament to have the power to decide which Scottish court should hear
the case, since administration of the courts system is devolved.
Allowing the Scottish Parliament to decide which courts heard which
cases would surely streamline that administration.
I ask the Government to reflect
on that and to consider amending the 1998 Act to allow the courts
system in Scotland to be entirely devolved to the Scottish
Parliament.
2.36
pm
Ann
McKechin (Glasgow, North) (Lab): I, too, am pleased to
confirm that I have no objections to the order. I am sure that my hon.
Friend the Minister is relieved. However, it is worthwhile mentioning
the fact that, although the legislation relates solely to the
Scottish jurisdiction, it is being considered by a cross-section of
Members of Parliament from both sides of the border. This is an example
of devolution working in practice here in the House of
Commons.
2.37
pm
David
Cairns:
I will answer those points quickly. I am grateful
for the welcome that hon. Members have offered the order. The hon.
Member for Lancaster and Wyre reminded me of one of my favourite
sayings: never in the history of oratory has anybody ever said,
That was a really good speech; I wish it had been
longer. I thank him for his
brevity.
On the point
made by the hon. Member for Argyll and Bute, the reality is that the
Scottish Parliament does not have power to make these changes because
road traffic offences are reserved. He welcomed that reservation. My
right hon. Friend the Member for Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill has
done a lot of campaigning on road safety issues, precisely because
these matters are
reserved.
It is not
that the Scottish Parliament cannot decide which court a case should go
to; it can alter the power of the courts in relation to this piece of
reserved law. The point is that the Scottish Parliament is trying to
free the sheriff courts from some of the stuff that has to go
thereit has the power to make more use of JP courts. However,
JP courts need to be given these additional powers and only we can do
that.
Finally, on the
point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow, North, statutory
instruments are the most common way in which we legislate in this
Parliament, and it is right that every Member has an equal right to
vote on legislation considered by the UK Parliament. I would not have
it any other way, because I believe in a united Parliament for the
United Kingdom. I hope that those who want to interrupt that tradition
reflect on the folly of their
ways.
The
Chairman:
I shall resist the temptation to make a speech.
[
Hon. Members: Come on!]
Dont tempt me, there is time
left.
Question put
and agreed
to.
Committee
rose at
twenty-one
minutes to Three
oclock.