Ms
Winterton: My hon. Friend is right. I was sad that some
Opposition Members were a little derisory about reducing intrusion,
because that has been a concern of older persons groups. For customers
aged 75 and over, we are removing the need for a detailed review of
their retirement provision every five years, which will benefit an
estimated 1 million pensioners. That will make a difference to the way
people feel. Having to come back after five years for another detailed
review can be a bit
intrusive.
Mr.
Waterson: Is the principle that the right hon. Lady is
putting forward on behalf of the Department that it is perfectly okay
to bring about improvements for one group of vulnerable people at the
expense of another, rather than finding the necessary money in the
departmental budget, or in the billions of pounds that are paid out
every year by her Department owing to fraud and
error?
Ms
Winterton: I am not clear which other group the hon.
Gentleman
means.
Mr.
Waterson: The Minister is trying to argue that the changes
are being made to save money, which in turn will be used to improve
automatic payments and so
on. Is it now a principle of the Department that to improve the way in
which one kind of benefits are handed out, it will penalise groups now
unable to claim because of the reduction in
backdating?
Ms
Winterton: I do not understand the hon. Gentleman’s
point. We are not penalising anybody. He referred to pensioners who are
on the lowest incomes, but the evidence is that some 70 per cent. of
people on the lowest incomes make the guaranteed credit claim within 3
months. We want to ensure that we have a simplified system for claiming
council tax benefit and housing benefit. People face real problems in
that
respect. This
group of benefits is different from many other benefits because there
is no need to show any good cause for the payment not having been made
before. They were introduced to encourage take-up at the beginning of
the process of introducing pension credit. However, we recognise that
when many people make a telephone call and say, “I’d like
to claim pension credit,” there is an element of surprise that
it can go back a whole year because it is an income support benefit
that is meant to help people in their day-to-day living. Some of the
most vulnerable people in our society will benefit from the measure, so
we want to concentrate on getting the benefit through as quickly and
efficiently as
possible. It
is therefore right that we consider the measure as a package. It is not
just about these regulations; it is about the wider picture. We have
agreed a wider package with Age Concern and Help the Aged. That is what
we are trying to explain. Over the long term, the package will result
in extra expenditure on pensioners. By around 2020, the Government will
spend an extra £75 million a year because of the changes, and by
2050 an extra £250 million a year will be spent.
These changes are not about cost-cutting. They are about ensuring that
we get benefits through to the people who need them and that we do so
in an effective
way. We
will continue to work with welfare rights organisations and others to
ensure that there is greater take-up and that people are aware of the
changes. I hope that, in view of the explanation I have given, the
Committee will support our regulations and reject the Liberal Democrat
motion. Question
put:— The
Committee divided: Ayes 9, Noes
6.
Division
No.
1] Question
accordingly agreed to.
Resolved, That
the Committee has considered the Social Security (Miscellaneous
Amendments) (No.4) Regulations 2008 (S.I. 2008, No. 2424).
Committee
rose at twenty-five minutes past Ten
o’clock.
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