The
Committee consisted of the following
Members:
Chairman:
Dr.
William McCrea
Anderson,
Mr. David
(Blaydon)
(Lab)
Bailey,
Mr. Adrian
(West Bromwich, West)
(Lab/Co-op)
Battle,
John
(Leeds, West)
(Lab)
Blackman,
Liz
(Vice-Chamberlain of Her Majesty's
Household)
Campbell,
Mr. Gregory
(East Londonderry)
(DUP)
Carmichael,
Mr. Alistair
(Orkney and Shetland)
(LD)
Cooper,
Rosie
(West Lancashire)
(Lab)
Cormack,
Sir Patrick
(South Staffordshire)
(Con)
Creagh,
Mary
(Wakefield)
(Lab)
Davies,
Philip
(Shipley)
(Con)
Davies,
Mr. Quentin
(Grantham and Stamford)
(Lab)
Devine,
Mr. Jim
(Livingston)
(Lab)
Dodds,
Mr. Nigel
(Belfast, North)
(DUP)
Donaldson,
Mr. Jeffrey M.
(Lagan Valley)
(DUP)
Durkan,
Mark
(Foyle) (SDLP)
Fraser,
Christopher
(South-West Norfolk)
(Con)
Hepburn,
Mr. Stephen
(Jarrow)
(Lab)
Hermon,
Lady
(North Down)
(UUP)
Joyce,
Mr. Eric
(Falkirk)
(Lab)
Lancaster,
Mr. Mark
(North-East Milton Keynes)
(Con)
McDonnell,
Dr. Alasdair
(Belfast, South)
(SDLP)
McGrady,
Mr. Eddie
(South Down)
(SDLP)
Marris,
Rob
(Wolverhampton, South-West)
(Lab)
Mulholland,
Greg
(Leeds, North-West)
(LD)
Norris,
Dan
(Wansdyke)
(Lab)
Paisley,
Rev. Ian
(North Antrim)
(DUP)
Paterson,
Mr. Owen
(North Shropshire)
(Con)
Pound,
Stephen
(Ealing, North)
(Lab)
Reid,
Mr. Alan
(Argyll and Bute)
(LD)
Robertson,
Mr. Laurence
(Tewkesbury)
(Con)
Robinson,
Mrs. Iris
(Strangford)
(DUP)
Robinson,
Mr. Peter
(Belfast, East)
(DUP)
Ruane,
Chris
(Vale of Clwyd)
(Lab)
Simpson,
David
(Upper Bann)
(DUP)
Wallace,
Mr. Ben
(Lancaster and Wyre)
(Con)
Watkinson,
Angela
(Upminster)
(Con)
Wilson,
Sammy
(East Antrim)
(DUP)
John Benger, Mike Clark,
Committee Clerks
attended
the Committee
Northern
Ireland Grand
Committee
Tuesday 17
June
2008
[Dr.
William McCrea in the
Chair]
Risk Assessment and Management of Sex Offenders
4.30
pm
Oral
Answers to
Questions
The
Secretary of State was
asked
Sexual
Abuse
1.
Dr.
Alasdair McDonnell (Belfast, South) (SDLP):
What assessment he has made of the effectiveness of the
law in protecting school pupils in Northern Ireland from sexual abuse
by teachers and other figures of authority.
[210336]
The
Minister of State, Northern Ireland Office (Paul Goggins):
The criminal law on sexual offences is undergoing reform through the
draft Sexual Offences (Northern Ireland) Order 2008. It is proposed
that all sexual activity with children under 16 will be an offence, as
will sexual contact with those over 16 but under 18 by those adults,
including teachers, who are in positions of
trust.
Dr.
McDonnell: Can screening, vetting or preventive measures
be taken either through the law or through implementation of it? It
strikes and distresses me that every now and again we have this
teacher, that coach or somebody else popping up who has been guilty of
abuse and has taken advantage of their position of
authority.
We have
the worst of both worlds. Decent people who are trying to provide
football coaching or other activities for children are grossly
inhibited and nearly afraid to do the job that they have opted to do or
to provide the voluntary activity that they have opted to provide, yet
continually those who are guilty of sexually abusing children seem to
be able to get away with it. They contrive to get around whatever
system we have.
Can
the Minister ensure that either in the new laws or in the
implementation of those laws, screening, vetting and preventive
measures will be improved so that we can catch the guilty and not
inhibit the
innocent?
Paul
Goggins: My hon. Friend puts his finger on an important
issue. Sexual predators are devious people
who try to manipulate systems and structures to abuse children and other
vulnerable people. It is incumbent on us to put in place the necessary
protections to ensure that they are prevented from doing that. Of
course, what happens in schools is now a devolved matter, but I still
have responsibilities in that regard, not least to ensure that criminal
law is strengthened. That is what we are doing through the Sexual
Offences (Northern Ireland) Order
2008.
My
hon. Friend asks about prevention. Two elements of it are important
here. First, every institution that has children in its
careparticularly schools, childrens homes and so
onshould have proper child protection procedures in place so
that the whole organisation and its staff are aware of their
responsibilities to protect the interests and welfare of
children.
Secondlywe
have recently taken steps to strengthen this procedure
considerablyanyone applying for a job in which they would be in
a position of trust with children now has to apply through Access
Northern Ireland for an enhanced check. That means that there
is a check against every police record in the United Kingdom
and every list that a Government agency holds of people who are
unsuitable to teach and to care for children, so that we can be as sure
as possible that people are fit to do the job for which they have
applied. Of course, it is incumbent on us all to be ever vigilant about
those in our community who would seek to prey on children and
vulnerable
people.
Christopher
Fraser (South-West Norfolk) (Con): May I point it out to
the Minister that he told the Delegated Legislation Committee
considering the draft Sexual Offences (Northern Ireland) Order 2008
that
there will be with
key stakeholders and others further consultation on guidance, which
will be issued prior to the enactment of the
legislation.?[Official Report, Second
Delegated Legislation Committee, 2 June 2008; c.
18.]
Unless he did so while I
was being briefed about another issue by a colleague on this Bench,
will he tell us when that guidance will be published? Will he also
expand on any consideration that he is giving to protecting teachers
from false accusations of
abuse?
Paul
Goggins: The second matter is now entirely for the
devolved Minister for Education, although I will be only too happy to
assist if I can, as I still have responsibility for criminal
law.
The guidance
that will follow the passing into law of the order still has a little
way to go, because having been considered by a Committee of the House
it must pass through the House of Lords. I am clear about the fact that
as soon as it is on the statute book, I want to engage all the
statutory and voluntary agencies in helping to ensure that the guidance
that flows from it is as well informed as possible. We need to listen
to the experts in child welfare and child care to ensure
that we get that guidance right. That work will begin
immediately the order is on the statute
book.
The
Chairman: As no other Members are seeking to catch my eye,
we shall move on to the main
debate.
Risk
Assessment and Management of Sex
Offenders
The
Chairman: I remind the Committee that the debate may
continue for up to two and a half
hours.
4.37
pm
The
Minister of State, Northern Ireland Office (Paul Goggins):
I beg to
move,
That
the Committee has considered the matter of MASRAM (multi-agency sex
offender risk assessment and management) and the management of the risk
posed by sex offenders living in the community in Northern
Ireland.
It
is good to see you in the Chair this afternoon, Dr. McCrea.
The debate is about the arrangements in Northern Ireland for protecting
the public from the risk posed by sex offenders in the community. I
know from the many exchanges that I have had while I have held my
responsibilities how important the issue is for all Members of
Parliament from Northern Ireland and beyond. It might help if I give
the Committee some background information, including details of the
multi-agency sex offender risk assessment and management
arrangementsquite a mouthfulknown as the MASRAM
arrangements for short. I also want to give the Committee some sense of
the future direction of that important work. I hope that, like other
criminal justice issues, it will shortly pass to the responsibility of
the
Assembly.
At
the outset, I wish to pay tribute to those involved in delivering the
MASRAM arrangementspolice officers, probation and prison staff
and many othersfor their commitment and dedication and their
work to protect us all from some particularly unpleasant and harmful
offending behaviour. Eight years ago, we had no specific, dedicated
multi-agency structures in Northern Ireland that were focused on
protecting the public from the risk posed by sex offenders in the
community. There were measures in place for supervising offenders, but
no method of tying together what individual criminal justice agencies
and others were doing with individual offenders as part of their
statutory responsibilities. Nor was there any structure to encourage
the sharing between those agencies of information that might have made
all the difference in reducing the risk of harm to the public. The
approach was essentially ad hoc and more or less dependent on informal
networks.
The
professionals on the ground felt that more needed to be done to harness
the skills and knowledge that each agency possessed and to focus them
on prevention. As a result, the MASRAM arrangements were born, their
roots laid down at an aptly named conference of key stakeholders and
professionals, held in 1996 under the working title of No Hiding Place.
Despite the progress made, for a long time MASRAM remained practically
unheard of across the community at large. Even when it was known, there
were many misperceptions and misunderstandings about its
work.
It might
help if I set the scene by outlining some of the facts about sexual
offending in Northern Ireland as well as the scale and nature of the
risks involved. Reported sexual crime in Northern Ireland makes up less
than 2 per cent. of all reported crime, with about 1,800 cases a year.
That rate has remained fairly consistent over the years.
On 31 March,
there were 774 offenders living in the community who were subject to
the notification requirements of the Sexual Offences Act 2003; they are
so-called registered sex offenders. Those are offenders who have been
convicted of sexual offences since 1997, or who were convicted before
that date but were still serving their sentence at that
time.
Mrs.
Iris Robinson (Strangford) (DUP): Does the Minister accept
that, although those figures are obviously very accurate, they do not
necessarily reflect the total number of abuses committed against young
people, simply because of the judicial system and young peoples
fear of having to go to court, give testimony and bear witness to what
happened to
them?
Paul
Goggins: I strongly agree with what the hon. Lady says.
First, there is under-reporting of sexual crimes. Of course, one reason
for that, tragically, is the fact that often the perpetrators of sexual
crimes are people who are known to their victims; they may even be
members of the victims own family, or acquaintances, neighbours
and so on. The cloud of secrecy that then envelops such offending
behaviour prevents it from coming to the knowledge of the police and
therefore prosecutions do not happen.
We also know
that sometimes, particularly in cases of rape and serious sexual
assault, victims do not wish to follow through with a prosecution, even
when they have reported crimes initially to the police. With Minister
McGimpsey, last week I launched a major strategy for dealing with
sexual violence in Northern Ireland. The aim of that strategy is to
provide victims with better personal support and also the opportunity
to give evidence that, in the long run, will convict the perpetrators
of such terrible
crimes.
So,
the hon. Lady makes a very important point. It is incumbent on us all
to manage those sex offenders whom we know about and also to work with
key agencies such as the health service and schools to ensure that,
wherever possible, we prevent sexual offending from happening in the
first place.
Therefore,
MASRAM is a set of arrangements that a number of criminal justice and
other agencies have signed up to in order to promote public
protection.
Sammy
Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP): The fact is that the
arrangements allow for head teachers and others to be aware of sex
offenders who may live close to schools, but that information is not
available to the wider public. Does the Minister accept that that
situation sometimes puts school headmasters and principals in an
invidious position where they know information that they cannot give
out to the public, even though the public often have an expectation
that they should have such information in their possession? How does he
intend to deal with that issue, given that many principals feel that
they are privy to information that they would like to give out but
cannot?