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9.45 pm

The Minister for the Middle East (Dr. Kim Howells): The Lisbon treaty is the fifth such treaty since the United Kingdom’s entry into the EU in 1973. It is good that procedures for scrutiny evolved and improved with each of those treaties. In the past, Governments of all complexions sought to use guillotine motions to organise discussions on Bills to implement EU treaties, if necessary.

Today’s business motion sets out a programme for debate on the Lisbon treaty that will ensure structure and balance. I have heard what hon. Members have said about the lack of time and the bids for more time to debate amendments and themes, and I have a great deal of sympathy for such bids and arguments. One is tempted to say, “God save us from experiments and innovations when it comes to the proceedings of this House.” I have been here long enough to know that, but I also know that the more straightforward business motion for the Nice treaty was adopted without debate. Today’s motion represents a significant innovation in procedure, and it is good that we have the opportunity to debate it fully.

My right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary set out the scope and nature of the Lisbon treaty on Second Reading, when he made it clear that it will improve the way in which the EU works. It will adapt the EU’s institutions to a Union of 27; it will ensure that the voices of Europe’s nations are heard more loudly in foreign policy; it will bring national Parliaments into day-to-day EU decision making to strengthen subsidiarity; and it will focus the EU on the big external challenges, such as climate change and migration.

If the treaty is unique, then it is in this regard: it marks the end of the long process of institutional reform—if the treaty is ratified around Europe, then that process is well and truly over. It will make valuable changes, and it will turn Europe from institutional reform to the real priorities of its citizens. We need to reflect that balance in our discussions in this House, which is something that the programme motion provides.

Mr. Jenkin: Will the Minister give way?

Dr. Howells: I am sorry, but I have very little time.

It is obvious from this evening’s debate that hon. Members judge that certain clauses will require more time and in-depth scrutiny than others. Rightly, clause 2 will be the focus of our attention in Committee, but given that it introduces the Lisbon treaty almost in its entirety, it is important that there is a clear structure in place to help the Committee to debate the content of the treaty as efficiently and effectively as possible.
28 Jan 2008 : Column 125
There will be two days of debate on clauses 3 to 7, which will include discussion of the passerelles. Time will also be devoted entirely to discussing amendments to the Bill. Furthermore, a full day will be set aside to discuss clause 8, as requested by the Select Committees.

It is time for the so-called themed debates on substantive motions to be understood as the innovation that they are. It is established practice when a Bill is in Committee or on Report to group amendments by theme. The motion provides a more structured and themed approach to the Committee stage. As my hon. Friend the Minister for Europe made clear in his opening statement, it is important that, as with amending treaties, thorough scrutiny of the legislation is conducted by debate in Parliament, not by referendum.

There is an important case to be made: the Lisbon treaty is good for Britain and good for the British people. As my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary explained on Second Reading, the debate on Europe should move from institutional reform to delivery. The Government’s structured approach to the Committee stage will enable the House to debate both the provisions of the treaty and the Bill. The structure of the Bill is one of the reasons why that is important. However, far more important is the wish to widen and deepen debate.

The new, so-called themed structure should make the process of scrutinising the Lisbon treaty much more open and accessible to the whole House. Some of the previous Bill proceedings have had the opposite effect and confused and discouraged rather than shed light and encouraged understanding and participation. The themed structure is good, and interventions by Members today have not convinced me otherwise.

Sir Patrick Cormack: The Minister has listened to most of this debate. Surely he has gathered that there is an overwhelming feeling on both sides of the House that we should at the very least go to the three hour/three hour structure proposed in the amendment, rather than stick with the four and a half hour/one and a half hour structure. Will he meet us on that?

Dr. Howells: There is room for flexibility on the balance of time in each of the debates; I certainly would not deny the hon. Gentleman the justice of that. It is possible, and I shall try to explain how it might come about.

The hon. Member for Stone (Mr. Cash) quoted “Erskine May” at length. Long ago, Governments began to evolve programmes of business in response to public need and, increasingly, to democratic pressure. As the process developed, questions of balance between business and time—the commonplace of modern procedure—became acute as never before. Thomas Erskine May’s fertile, if cautious, procedural imagination was there to help him to find solutions. He said that organisation was not less essential in a senate than in a factory. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman, who quoted May at great length, will agree that he should come to terms with that piece of wisdom.

Mr. Cash: I concluded my remarks on that matter by quoting from the current edition of “Erskine May”; there was no departure on the fundamental principles of government by discussion.

28 Jan 2008 : Column 126

Dr. Howells: We could talk at great length about the editions of “Erskine May”, but I have just quoted the hon. Gentleman a bit of it.

Some right hon. and hon. Members have said that only amendments should be taken, but that would hinder the consideration of the treaty. The Bill is short and general; amendments cannot target treaty innovations adequately. We are concerned that we should scrutinise the treaty as well as the Bill.

My hon. Friend the Minister for Europe began to describe the flexibility that was mentioned a little earlier. Paragraph (6) of the motion gives the House the flexibility to alter the balance between themed debate and amendments, and between different days. Until as late as the rising of the House on the sitting day before an allotted day, the Government will be able to respond to requests to allow more time on themed debates or more time on amendments.

Mr. Jenkin: Will the Minister give way?

Dr. Howells: No, I will not.

The response would take the form of a motion amending the business motion—specifically, amending the table. Provided that that amendment did not reduce the overall time for debate on the treaty of Lisbon, the question would be put forthwith, and would therefore not disrupt business unduly.

The supplementary business motion amending the table to the business motion can be taken under paragraph (6) of the business motion. As I said, if it does not reduce overall time, it can be tabled as late as the night before the relevant allotted day.

Mr. Jenkin: Will the Minister give way?

Dr. Howells: No, I will not.

Hon. Members asked about the provision in paragraph (4) of the business of the House motion, which prevents an emergency debate from taking place on the day allotted to the treaty until after the conclusion of proceedings on the treaty. They complained that that was a novel way of proceeding that takes the initiative in the matter of emergency debates away from the Speaker, but that is not true. This is not a new provision in substance at all.

The existing provisions for programme motions under Standing Order 83I(4) already provide for delaying emergency debates until after the end of programmed business. Paragraph (4) of the motion simply replicates that for the proceedings on the treaty. The only reason that the motion had to make express provision for this instead of simply applying Standing Order 83I(4) is that when the House agreed to the present sessional experiment changing the arrangements for emergency debates under Standing Order 24, it failed to make the necessary consequential amendments to Standing Order 83I(4). Paragraph (4) of the motion therefore makes the necessary provision to make the existing procedure for programmed business work for proceedings on the treaty.

Of course, if some extreme emergency arose so that the House desperately wanted to abandon business on the treaty for the day and proceed to the emergency debate, it would be open to the House to conclude the day’s proceedings on the treaty very fast and get on to the emergency debate. In those circumstances, the Government would consider—

28 Jan 2008 : Column 127

Mr. Jenkin rose—

Dr. Howells: I am not giving way.

In those circumstances, the Government would consider tabling a supplemental business of the House motion for the following day to restore the amount of time lost from consideration of the treaty.

Right hon. and hon. Members asked about protection of time on days 9 to 11. It is true that, as drafted, the motion does not guarantee any particular number of hours of debate on any of those days. The length of debate will be determined by the moment of interruption in the normal way. Given that we are allowing three days for debate on clauses 3 to 8, the House may think that this is sufficient. If it turns out—

Mr. Jenkin rose—

Hon. Members: Give way!

Dr. Howells: Conservative Members were very keen to know the answers to these questions because of course they are obsessed with themselves.

Mr. Jenkin rose—

Dr. Howells: The hon. Gentleman can keep on but I will not give way.

If it turns out that there are no statements on those three days and if decisions have been made about guaranteeing six hours, then of course the debate will start at 3.30 pm and end at 9.30 pm, not at 10 o’clock. There would be no point in the amendment whatsoever; it shows that hon. Members have not read the motion properly.

Mr. Jenkin: Will the Minister give way?

Dr. Howells: No, I will not—the hon. Gentleman must be deaf.

The right hon. Member for Richmond, Yorks (Mr. Hague) alleged that there is not enough time to debate the substantive issues in the treaty. He backed that up with a raft of allegations and familiar scare stories—we have heard it all before. Let me take just a few examples. In relation to justice and home affairs, he said that the treaty will give Eurojust the right to launch prosecutions in this country. That is completely wrong—it will not have the power to initiate prosecutions. Eurojust is not a threat. In June, the Home Affairs Committee concluded in a report:

But the right hon. Gentleman never lets the facts get in the way of a good story. He also alleged that we do not support the creation of a European public prosecutor. That is absolutely right—we do not. That is why we have ensured that we have retained unanimity, with a UK veto, on the creation of a European public prosecutor. If a smaller group of countries wishes to go ahead with that idea, it will not affect the United Kingdom unless we choose to opt in.

28 Jan 2008 : Column 128

Mr. Jenkin: Will the Minister give way?

Dr. Howells: No.

As has been pointed out, the United Kingdom has a legally binding opt-in in every area of justice and home affairs. Therefore, we will participate in a justice and home affairs measure only if we choose to. That is why there is no ratchet in JHA matters. We will opt in only if it is in the UK’s interest to do so. I very much commend this motion to the House.

Question put, That the amendment be made:—

The House divided: Ayes 244, Noes 303.
Division No. 056]
[10 pm


Afriyie, Adam
Ainsworth, Mr. Peter
Alexander, Danny
Amess, Mr. David
Ancram, rh Mr. Michael
Arbuthnot, rh Mr. James
Atkinson, Mr. Peter
Bacon, Mr. Richard
Baker, Norman
Baldry, Tony
Barker, Gregory
Barrett, John
Beith, rh Mr. Alan
Bellingham, Mr. Henry
Benyon, Mr. Richard
Bercow, John
Beresford, Sir Paul
Blunt, Mr. Crispin
Bone, Mr. Peter
Boswell, Mr. Tim
Bottomley, Peter
Brady, Mr. Graham
Brake, Tom
Brazier, Mr. Julian
Breed, Mr. Colin
Brokenshire, James
Brooke, Annette
Browne, Mr. Jeremy
Browning, Angela
Burns, Mr. Simon
Burrowes, Mr. David
Burstow, Mr. Paul
Burt, Alistair
Burt, Lorely
Butterfill, Sir John
Campbell, Mr. Gregory
Campbell, rh Sir Menzies
Carswell, Mr. Douglas
Cash, Mr. William
Chope, Mr. Christopher
Clappison, Mr. James
Clark, Greg
Clarke, rh Mr. Kenneth
Clifton-Brown, Mr. Geoffrey
Corbyn, Jeremy
Cormack, Sir Patrick
Cox, Mr. Geoffrey
Crabb, Mr. Stephen
Davey, Mr. Edward
Davidson, Mr. Ian
Davies, Mr. Dai
Davies, David T.C. (Monmouth)
Davies, Philip
Davis, rh David (Haltemprice and Howden)
Djanogly, Mr. Jonathan
Dorrell, rh Mr. Stephen
Dorries, Mrs. Nadine
Duncan, Alan
Duncan Smith, rh Mr. Iain
Dunne, Mr. Philip
Ellwood, Mr. Tobias
Evans, Mr. Nigel
Evennett, Mr. David
Fabricant, Michael
Fallon, Mr. Michael
Featherstone, Lynne
Field, rh Mr. Frank
Field, Mr. Mark
Foster, Mr. Don
Fox, Dr. Liam
Francois, Mr. Mark
Fraser, Mr. Christopher
Gale, Mr. Roger
Garnier, Mr. Edward
Gauke, Mr. David
George, Andrew
Gibb, Mr. Nick
Gidley, Sandra
Gillan, Mrs. Cheryl
Godsiff, Mr. Roger
Goldsworthy, Julia
Goodman, Mr. Paul
Gove, Michael
Grayling, Chris
Green, Damian
Greening, Justine
Greenway, Mr. John
Grieve, Mr. Dominic
Gummer, rh Mr. John
Hague, rh Mr. William
Hammond, Mr. Philip
Hammond, Stephen
Hancock, Mr. Mike
Hands, Mr. Greg
Harper, Mr. Mark
Harris, Dr. Evan
Harvey, Nick
Hayes, Mr. John
Heald, Mr. Oliver
Heath, Mr. David
Heathcoat-Amory, rh Mr. David
Hemming, John
Hendry, Charles
Herbert, Nick
Hoban, Mr. Mark

Hoey, Kate
Hollobone, Mr. Philip
Holloway, Mr. Adam
Holmes, Paul
Hopkins, Kelvin
Horam, Mr. John
Horwood, Martin
Howard, rh Mr. Michael
Howarth, David
Howarth, Mr. Gerald
Hughes, Simon
Huhne, Chris
Hunt, Mr. Jeremy
Hunter, Mark
Jack, rh Mr. Michael
Jackson, Mr. Stewart
Jenkin, Mr. Bernard
Johnson, Mr. Boris
Jones, Mr. David
Kawczynski, Daniel
Key, Robert
Kirkbride, Miss Julie
Knight, rh Mr. Greg
Kramer, Susan
Laing, Mrs. Eleanor
Lait, Mrs. Jacqui
Lamb, Norman
Lancaster, Mr. Mark
Laws, Mr. David
Leech, Mr. John
Leigh, Mr. Edward
Lewis, Dr. Julian
Liddell-Grainger, Mr. Ian
Lidington, Mr. David
Lilley, rh Mr. Peter
Llwyd, Mr. Elfyn
Loughton, Tim
Luff, Peter
Mackay, rh Mr. Andrew
Maclean, rh David
MacNeil, Mr. Angus
Main, Anne
Malins, Mr. Humfrey
Maples, Mr. John
Maude, rh Mr. Francis
May, rh Mrs. Theresa
McCrea, Dr. William
McIntosh, Miss Anne
McLoughlin, rh Mr. Patrick
Mercer, Patrick
Miller, Mrs. Maria
Milton, Anne
Mitchell, Mr. Andrew
Moore, Mr. Michael
Moss, Mr. Malcolm
Mulholland, Greg
Mundell, David
Murrison, Dr. Andrew
Neill, Robert
O'Brien, Mr. Stephen
Öpik, Lembit
Osborne, Mr. George
Ottaway, Richard
Paice, Mr. James
Paterson, Mr. Owen
Penning, Mike
Penrose, John
Pickles, Mr. Eric
Price, Adam
Prisk, Mr. Mark
Pugh, Dr. John
Randall, Mr. John
Redwood, rh Mr. John
Reid, Mr. Alan
Rennie, Willie
Rifkind, rh Sir Malcolm
Robathan, Mr. Andrew
Robertson, Angus
Robertson, Hugh
Robertson, Mr. Laurence
Rogerson, Dan
Rosindell, Andrew
Rowen, Paul
Ruffley, Mr. David
Sanders, Mr. Adrian
Scott, Mr. Lee
Selous, Andrew
Shapps, Grant
Shepherd, Mr. Richard
Short, rh Clare
Simmonds, Mark
Simpson, David
Simpson, Mr. Keith
Smith, Sir Robert
Soames, Mr. Nicholas
Spelman, Mrs. Caroline
Spicer, Sir Michael
Spink, Bob
Spring, Mr. Richard
Steen, Mr. Anthony
Streeter, Mr. Gary
Stringer, Graham
Stunell, Andrew
Swire, Mr. Hugo
Syms, Mr. Robert
Tapsell, Sir Peter
Taylor, Matthew
Taylor, Dr. Richard
Teather, Sarah
Tredinnick, David
Turner, Mr. Andrew
Tyrie, Mr. Andrew
Vaizey, Mr. Edward
Vara, Mr. Shailesh
Viggers, Peter
Villiers, Mrs. Theresa
Walker, Mr. Charles
Wallace, Mr. Ben
Walter, Mr. Robert
Watkinson, Angela
Webb, Steve
Whittingdale, Mr. John
Widdecombe, rh Miss Ann
Wiggin, Bill
Willetts, Mr. David
Williams, Hywel
Williams, Mark
Williams, Mr. Roger
Williams, Stephen
Willis, Mr. Phil
Willott, Jenny
Wilshire, Mr. David
Wilson, Mr. Rob
Winterton, Ann
Winterton, Sir Nicholas
Wishart, Pete
Wright, Jeremy
Young, rh Sir George
Younger-Ross, Richard
Tellers for the Ayes:

Mr. John Baron and
Mr. Nick Hurd


Abbott, Ms Diane
Ainger, Nick
Alexander, rh Mr. Douglas
Allen, Mr. Graham
Anderson, Mr. David
Anderson, Janet
Armstrong, rh Hilary
Atkins, Charlotte
Austin, Mr. Ian
Austin, John
Bailey, Mr. Adrian
Balls, rh Ed
Banks, Gordon
Barlow, Ms Celia
Barron, rh Mr. Kevin
Battle, rh John
Beckett, rh Margaret
Begg, Miss Anne
Bell, Sir Stuart
Benn, rh Hilary
Benton, Mr. Joe
Berry, Roger
Betts, Mr. Clive
Blackman, Liz
Blackman-Woods, Dr. Roberta
Blears, rh Hazel
Blizzard, Mr. Bob
Blunkett, rh Mr. David
Borrow, Mr. David S.
Bradshaw, Mr. Ben
Brennan, Kevin
Brown, Lyn
Brown, rh Mr. Nicholas
Brown, Mr. Russell
Browne, rh Des
Bryant, Chris
Buck, Ms Karen
Burden, Richard
Burgon, Colin
Burnham, rh Andy
Butler, Ms Dawn
Byers, rh Mr. Stephen
Byrne, Mr. Liam
Cairns, David
Campbell, Mr. Ronnie
Caton, Mr. Martin
Cawsey, Mr. Ian
Clapham, Mr. Michael
Clark, Ms Katy
Clark, Paul
Clarke, rh Mr. Charles
Clarke, rh Mr. Tom
Clelland, Mr. David
Clwyd, rh Ann
Coaker, Mr. Vernon
Coffey, Ann
Cohen, Harry
Connarty, Michael
Cooper, Rosie
Cooper, rh Yvette
Cousins, Jim
Cruddas, Jon
Cryer, Mrs. Ann
Cummings, John
Cunningham, Mr. Jim
Cunningham, Tony
Darling, rh Mr. Alistair
David, Mr. Wayne
Dean, Mrs. Janet
Denham, rh Mr. John
Devine, Mr. Jim
Dhanda, Mr. Parmjit
Dismore, Mr. Andrew
Dobbin, Jim
Dobson, rh Frank
Donohoe, Mr. Brian H.
Doran, Mr. Frank
Dowd, Jim
Drew, Mr. David
Eagle, Angela
Eagle, Maria
Efford, Clive
Ellman, Mrs. Louise
Ennis, Jeff
Etherington, Bill
Farrelly, Paul
Fisher, Mark
Fitzpatrick, Jim
Flello, Mr. Robert
Flint, Caroline
Flynn, Paul
Follett, Barbara
Foster, Mr. Michael (Worcester)
Foster, Michael Jabez (Hastings and Rye)
Francis, Dr. Hywel
Gapes, Mike
George, rh Mr. Bruce
Gibson, Dr. Ian
Gilroy, Linda
Goggins, Paul
Goodman, Helen
Griffith, Nia
Griffiths, Nigel
Grogan, Mr. John
Gwynne, Andrew
Hall, Mr. Mike
Hall, Patrick
Hamilton, Mr. David
Hamilton, Mr. Fabian
Hanson, rh Mr. David
Harman, rh Ms Harriet
Harris, Mr. Tom
Havard, Mr. Dai
Healey, John
Henderson, Mr. Doug
Hendrick, Mr. Mark
Hepburn, Mr. Stephen
Heppell, Mr. John
Hesford, Stephen
Hewitt, rh Ms Patricia
Heyes, David
Hill, rh Keith
Hillier, Meg
Hodge, rh Margaret
Hodgson, Mrs. Sharon
Hood, Mr. Jim
Hoon, rh Mr. Geoffrey
Hope, Phil
Howarth, rh Mr. George
Howells, Dr. Kim
Hoyle, Mr. Lindsay
Hughes, rh Beverley
Humble, Mrs. Joan
Hutton, rh Mr. John
Iddon, Dr. Brian
Illsley, Mr. Eric
Irranca-Davies, Huw
Jenkins, Mr. Brian
Johnson, rh Alan
Johnson, Ms Diana R.

Jones, Helen
Jones, Mr. Kevan
Jones, Mr. Martyn
Jowell, rh Tessa
Joyce, Mr. Eric
Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald
Keeble, Ms Sally
Keeley, Barbara
Keen, Alan
Keen, Ann
Kelly, rh Ruth
Kemp, Mr. Fraser
Kennedy, rh Jane
Khan, Mr. Sadiq
Kidney, Mr. David
Kilfoyle, Mr. Peter
Knight, Jim
Kumar, Dr. Ashok
Ladyman, Dr. Stephen
Lammy, Mr. David
Laxton, Mr. Bob
Lazarowicz, Mark
Lepper, David
Levitt, Tom
Lewis, Mr. Ivan
Linton, Martin
Lloyd, Tony
Love, Mr. Andrew
Lucas, Ian
Mackinlay, Andrew
MacShane, rh Mr. Denis
Mactaggart, Fiona
Mahmood, Mr. Khalid
Malik, Mr. Shahid
Mallaber, Judy
Mann, John
Marris, Rob
Marsden, Mr. Gordon
Marshall-Andrews, Mr. Robert
Martlew, Mr. Eric
McAvoy, rh Mr. Thomas
McCafferty, Chris
McCarthy, Kerry
McCarthy-Fry, Sarah
McCartney, rh Mr. Ian
McDonagh, Siobhain
McFadden, Mr. Pat
McFall, rh John
McGovern, Mr. Jim
McGuire, Mrs. Anne
McIsaac, Shona
McKechin, Ann
McKenna, Rosemary
McNulty, rh Mr. Tony
Meacher, rh Mr. Michael
Meale, Mr. Alan
Merron, Gillian
Michael, rh Alun
Milburn, rh Mr. Alan
Miliband, rh David
Miliband, rh Edward
Miller, Andrew
Moffatt, Laura
Mole, Chris
Moon, Mrs. Madeleine
Moran, Margaret
Morden, Jessica
Morgan, Julie
Morley, rh Mr. Elliot
Mountford, Kali
Mullin, Mr. Chris
Munn, Meg
Murphy, Mr. Denis
Murphy, Mr. Jim
Murphy, rh Mr. Paul
Naysmith, Dr. Doug
O'Brien, Mr. Mike
O'Hara, Mr. Edward
Olner, Mr. Bill
Osborne, Sandra
Owen, Albert
Palmer, Dr. Nick
Pearson, Ian
Plaskitt, Mr. James
Pope, Mr. Greg
Pound, Stephen
Prentice, Bridget
Prentice, Mr. Gordon
Primarolo, rh Dawn
Prosser, Gwyn
Purchase, Mr. Ken
Purnell, rh James
Rammell, Bill
Raynsford, rh Mr. Nick
Reed, Mr. Andy
Reed, Mr. Jamie
Reid, rh John
Riordan, Mrs. Linda
Robertson, John
Robinson, Mr. Geoffrey
Rooney, Mr. Terry
Roy, Mr. Frank
Ruane, Chris
Ruddock, Joan
Russell, Christine
Ryan, rh Joan
Salter, Martin
Sarwar, Mr. Mohammad
Seabeck, Alison
Sharma, Mr. Virendra
Shaw, Jonathan
Sheerman, Mr. Barry
Sheridan, Jim
Simon, Mr. Siôn
Singh, Mr. Marsha
Skinner, Mr. Dennis
Slaughter, Mr. Andy
Smith, rh Mr. Andrew
Smith, Ms Angela C. (Sheffield, Hillsborough)
Smith, Angela E. (Basildon)
Smith, Geraldine
Smith, rh Jacqui
Smith, John
Snelgrove, Anne
Soulsby, Sir Peter
Southworth, Helen
Spellar, rh Mr. John
Starkey, Dr. Phyllis
Stewart, Ian
Strang, rh Dr. Gavin
Straw, rh Mr. Jack
Sutcliffe, Mr. Gerry
Taylor, Ms Dari
Taylor, David
Thomas, Mr. Gareth
Timms, rh Mr. Stephen
Tipping, Paddy
Todd, Mr. Mark
Touhig, rh Mr. Don
Trickett, Jon
Truswell, Mr. Paul
Turner, Mr. Neil
Twigg, Derek

Vaz, rh Keith
Vis, Dr. Rudi
Waltho, Lynda
Watson, Mr. Tom
Watts, Mr. Dave
Whitehead, Dr. Alan
Wicks, Malcolm
Williams, rh Mr. Alan
Williams, Mrs. Betty
Wills, Mr. Michael
Wilson, Phil
Winnick, Mr. David
Winterton, rh Ms Rosie
Wood, Mike
Woodward, rh Mr. Shaun
Woolas, Mr. Phil
Wright, Mr. Anthony
Wright, David
Wright, Mr. Iain
Wyatt, Derek
Tellers for the Noes:

Mark Tami and
Steve McCabe
Question accordingly negatived.
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