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Let me comment on some of the interesting points made in the debate. The hon. Member for Runnymede and Weybridge (Mr. Hammond) introduced his party’s proposals, which were interesting to hear. It struck me that he was generous in giving way during his speech until he reached the section on his party’s proposals for a new framework. At that point, he wanted to rush to the end as quickly as possible and avoid answering questions. Clearly, some interesting ideas have been put forward, but there is a great deal of vagueness on the detail, such as on what the forecast period would be. Many detailed points were raised in interventions, but, sadly, as in many other areas of Conservative policy, the detail is missing.
The contribution of the hon. Member for Twickenham (Dr. Cable) was characteristically thoughtful and helpful, not least in making some trenchant observations and criticisms of the Conservative party’s policies. I enjoyed the contributions of my hon. Friends the Members for Luton, North (Kelvin Hopkins) and for South Derbyshire (Mr. Todd), who is right to draw attention to the way in which we have maintained capital investment. Total schools capital investment has risen from less than £700 million in 1997 to £6.4 billion this year. The removal of the need for classroom roofs to be supported by pit props is among the benefits of that.
I was grateful to the hon. Member for Gosport (Sir Peter Viggers) for his kind remarks. I agree with him about the decisions made in 1997, which he supported. Of course, I also support the other decisions that were made. In relation to the arrangements introduced in yesterday’s legislation on dormant accounts, a long-term process is envisaged. I noticed that the House did not divide on those proposals.
The hon. Gentleman raised the question of remuneration in the financial sector. The issue is about undesirable incentives towards excessive risk taking, which we have undoubtedly seen. That is why the FSA has said that it will take more account of financial institutions’ remuneration structures in its risk assessment of banks, and that is the right approach.
The hon. Member for Stone (Mr. Cash) queried some of the figures. Let me make the point that the Office for National Statistics figure to which he referred was general Government gross debt rather than public sector net debt, the figure to which I referred—36.5 per cent. in 2006-07, rising to 36.8 per cent in 2007-08.
We do not take risks with stability in the economy. By taking the right decisions, we can make sure that Britain continues the success of the past decade and meets the challenges of the next, building greater prosperity and fairness. The Monetary Policy Committee has been acknowledged in the debate as a cornerstone of the successful economic policy frameworks that have delivered sustained growth and, on average, lower inflation than in the euro area and the United States. We firmly support the 2 per cent. inflation target, and will support the Bank of England’s Monetary Policy Committee in the decisions it takes to ensure that inflation comes back to target within the next couple of years.
We remain fully committed to the fiscal policy objectives that we have pursued consistently since 1997. The pre-Budget report will set out how we are striking the right balance between supporting the economy on the one hand and ensuring that the Government live within their means and that the public finances remain on a
sustainable path on the other. We will continue to act on our commitment to develop secure, efficient, stable and fair financial markets. We are strengthening the financial stability framework that we put in place in 1997, which has worked well.
As my right hon. Friend the Chancellor set out yesterday, however, the Banking Bill—introduced earlier today—will enhance our ability to respond to difficulties in the financial sector by: strengthening early regulatory intervention and liquidity assistance; providing the authorities with permanent powers to deal with failing banks; strengthening depositor protection through the financial services compensation scheme; and putting in place a new statutory role for the Bank of England in preserving financial stability.
The problem for the Conservative party is that its philosophy simply does not work in times such as these. It wants to see Government withdrawing—doing less. That approach simply cannot work in such testing times— [Interruption.]
Mr. Deputy Speaker (Sir Alan Haselhurst): Order. There is too much noise in the Chamber. I need to hear the right hon. Gentleman’s winding-up speech.
Mr. Timms: The approach simply cannot work in such tough times. That is why Conservative Front Benchers have got all the key judgments wrong in the past few weeks. They were wrong on Northern Rock, wrong on Bradford & Bingley, and wrong on short selling. People are noticing their approach. As the Financial Times said this morning,
“they have developed a habit of calling on the Government to take action that is already in the pipeline.”
The framework undoubtedly faces its toughest test since it was introduced a decade ago. It has served us extremely well. We will come through the test with renewed confidence. Over the past decade, we have taken the right decisions for a strong and stable economy. Now we are taking the right decisions for continuing prosperity. That is the right approach, and I ask the House for its support.
Question put, That the original words stand part of the Question:—
The House proceeded to a Division.
Mr. Deputy Speaker: Perhaps the Serjeant at Arms could start by investigating what is happening in the No Lobby and then, if necessary, investigate what is happening in the Aye Lobby.
The House having divided: Ayes 222, Noes 296.
AYES
Afriyie, Adam
Ainsworth, Mr. Peter
Amess, Mr. David
Arbuthnot, rh Mr. James
Atkinson, Mr. Peter
Baldry, Tony
Barker, Gregory
Baron, Mr. John
Barrett, John
Beith, rh Sir Alan
Bellingham, Mr. Henry
Benyon, Mr. Richard
Bercow, John
Beresford, Sir Paul
Binley, Mr. Brian
Bone, Mr. Peter
Boswell, Mr. Tim
Brake, Tom
Brazier, Mr. Julian
Breed, Mr. Colin
Brokenshire, James
Brooke, Annette
Browne, Mr. Jeremy
Browning, Angela
Bruce, rh Malcolm
Burns, Mr. Simon
Burrowes, Mr. David
Burt, Alistair
Burt, Lorely
Butterfill, Sir John
Carmichael, Mr. Alistair
Carswell, Mr. Douglas
Cash, Mr. William
Chope, Mr. Christopher
Clappison, Mr. James
Clark, Greg
Clarke, rh Mr. Kenneth
Clifton-Brown, Mr. Geoffrey
Conway, Derek
Cormack, Sir Patrick
Cox, Mr. Geoffrey
Crabb, Mr. Stephen
Curry, rh Mr. David
Davey, Mr. Edward
Davies, David T.C. (Monmouth)
Davies, Philip
Djanogly, Mr. Jonathan
Dorrell, rh Mr. Stephen
Dorries, Mrs. Nadine
Duncan, Alan
Duncan Smith, rh Mr. Iain
Ellwood, Mr. Tobias
Evans, Mr. Nigel
Evennett, Mr. David
Fabricant, Michael
Farron, Tim
Featherstone, Lynne
Field, Mr. Mark
Foster, Mr. Don
Francois, Mr. Mark
Gale, Mr. Roger
Garnier, Mr. Edward
Gauke, Mr. David
George, Andrew
Gibb, Mr. Nick
Gillan, Mrs. Cheryl
Goldsworthy, Julia
Goodman, Mr. Paul
Goodwill, Mr. Robert
Gove, Michael
Gray, Mr. James
Grayling, Chris
Greening, Justine
Greenway, Mr. John
Grieve, Mr. Dominic
Gummer, rh Mr. John
Hague, rh Mr. William
Hammond, Mr. Philip
Hammond, Stephen
Hands, Mr. Greg
Harper, Mr. Mark
Harris, Dr. Evan
Harvey, Nick
Hayes, Mr. John
Heald, Mr. Oliver
Heath, Mr. David
Heathcoat-Amory, rh Mr. David
Hemming, John
Hendry, Charles
Herbert, Nick
Hoban, Mr. Mark
Hogg, rh Mr. Douglas
Hollobone, Mr. Philip
Holmes, Paul
Horam, Mr. John
Horwood, Martin
Hosie, Stewart
Howarth, David
Howarth, Mr. Gerald
Howell, John
Huhne, Chris
Hunt, Mr. Jeremy
Hunter, Mark
Hurd, Mr. Nick
Jack, rh Mr. Michael
Jackson, Mr. Stewart
Jenkin, Mr. Bernard
Jones, Mr. David
Key, Robert
Kirkbride, Miss Julie
Knight, rh Mr. Greg
Kramer, Susan
Laing, Mrs. Eleanor
Lait, Mrs. Jacqui
Lamb, Norman
Lancaster, Mr. Mark
Lansley, Mr. Andrew
Laws, Mr. David
Leech, Mr. John
Leigh, Mr. Edward
Letwin, rh Mr. Oliver
Liddell-Grainger, Mr. Ian
Lidington, Mr. David
Lilley, rh Mr. Peter
Llwyd, Mr. Elfyn
Loughton, Tim
Luff, Peter
Mackay, rh Mr. Andrew
Maclean, rh David
Main, Anne
Malins, Mr. Humfrey
Maples, Mr. John
Mason, John
Maude, rh Mr. Francis
May, rh Mrs. Theresa
McIntosh, Miss Anne
McLoughlin, rh Mr. Patrick
Miller, Mrs. Maria
Milton, Anne
Mitchell, Mr. Andrew
Mundell, David
Neill, Robert
Newmark, Mr. Brooks
O'Brien, Mr. Stephen
Oaten, Mr. Mark
Osborne, Mr. George
Paice, Mr. James
Paterson, Mr. Owen
Penning, Mike
Penrose, John
Pickles, Mr. Eric
Price, Adam
Prisk, Mr. Mark
Pritchard, Mark
Pugh, Dr. John
Randall, Mr. John
Redwood, rh Mr. John
Reid, Mr. Alan
Rennie, Willie
Robathan, Mr. Andrew
Robertson, Angus
Robertson, Hugh
Robertson, Mr. Laurence
Rogerson, Dan
Rosindell, Andrew
Rowen, Paul
Ruffley, Mr. David
Russell, Bob
Sanders, Mr. Adrian
Scott, Mr. Lee
Selous, Andrew
Shapps, Grant
Shepherd, Mr. Richard
Simmonds, Mark
Simpson, Mr. Keith
Smith, Sir Robert
Soames, Mr. Nicholas
Spelman, Mrs. Caroline
Spicer, Sir Michael
Spink, Bob
Steen, Mr. Anthony
Streeter, Mr. Gary
Stuart, Mr. Graham
Stunell, Andrew
Swayne, Mr. Desmond
Swinson, Jo
Swire, Mr. Hugo
Syms, Mr. Robert
Tapsell, Sir Peter
Taylor, Mr. Ian
Taylor, Matthew
Taylor, Dr. Richard
Teather, Sarah
Thurso, John
Timpson, Mr. Edward
Turner, Mr. Andrew
Tyrie, Mr. Andrew
Vaizey, Mr. Edward
Vara, Mr. Shailesh
Viggers, Sir Peter
Villiers, Mrs. Theresa
Walker, Mr. Charles
Wallace, Mr. Ben
Waterson, Mr. Nigel
Watkinson, Angela
Whittingdale, Mr. John
Widdecombe, rh Miss Ann
Wiggin, Bill
Willetts, Mr. David
Williams, Hywel
Williams, Mark
Williams, Mr. Roger
Williams, Stephen
Willott, Jenny
Wilshire, Mr. David
Wilson, Mr. Rob
Wilson, Sammy
Winterton, Ann
Wishart, Pete
Yeo, Mr. Tim
Young, rh Sir George
Younger-Ross, Richard
Tellers for the Ayes:
James Duddridge and
Jeremy Wright
NOES
Abbott, Ms Diane
Alexander, rh Mr. Douglas
Allen, Mr. Graham
Anderson, Mr. David
Anderson, Janet
Armstrong, rh Hilary
Atkins, Charlotte
Austin, Mr. Ian
Austin, John
Bailey, Mr. Adrian
Baird, Vera
Balls, rh Ed
Barlow, Ms Celia
Barron, rh Mr. Kevin
Battle, rh John
Bayley, Hugh
Begg, Miss Anne
Bell, Sir Stuart
Benn, rh Hilary
Benton, Mr. Joe
Berry, Roger
Betts, Mr. Clive
Blackman, Liz
Blackman-Woods, Dr. Roberta
Blears, rh Hazel
Blizzard, Mr. Bob
Blunkett, rh Mr. David
Borrow, Mr. David S.
Bradshaw, Mr. Ben
Brennan, Kevin
Brown, Lyn
Brown, rh Mr. Nicholas
Brown, Mr. Russell
Browne, rh Des
Bryant, Chris
Burgon, Colin
Butler, Ms Dawn
Byers, rh Mr. Stephen
Byrne, Mr. Liam
Caborn, rh Mr. Richard
Cairns, David
Campbell, Mr. Alan
Campbell, Mr. Ronnie
Caton, Mr. Martin
Cawsey, Mr. Ian
Challen, Colin
Chaytor, Mr. David
Clapham, Mr. Michael
Clark, Ms Katy
Clark, Paul
Clarke, rh Mr. Tom
Clelland, Mr. David
Clwyd, rh Ann
Coaker, Mr. Vernon
Coffey, Ann
Cohen, Harry
Connarty, Michael
Cooper, Rosie
Cooper, rh Yvette
Corbyn, Jeremy
Crausby, Mr. David
Creagh, Mary
Cruddas, Jon
Cryer, Mrs. Ann
Cummings, John
Cunningham, Mr. Jim
Cunningham, Tony
David, Mr. Wayne
Davidson, Mr. Ian
Davies, Mr. Dai
Davies, Mr. Quentin
Dean, Mrs. Janet
Denham, rh Mr. John
Devine, Mr. Jim
Dhanda, Mr. Parmjit
Dismore, Mr. Andrew
Dobbin, Jim
Dobson, rh Frank
Donohoe, Mr. Brian H.
Doran, Mr. Frank
Dowd, Jim
Drew, Mr. David
Eagle, Angela
Eagle, Maria
Efford, Clive
Ellman, Mrs. Louise
Engel, Natascha
Ennis, Jeff
Farrelly, Paul
Field, rh Mr. Frank
Fisher, Mark
Fitzpatrick, Jim
Flello, Mr. Robert
Flint, rh Caroline
Flynn, Paul
Follett, Barbara
Foster, Mr. Michael (Worcester)
Foster, Michael Jabez (Hastings and Rye)
Francis, Dr. Hywel
Gardiner, Barry
George, rh Mr. Bruce
Gerrard, Mr. Neil
Gibson, Dr. Ian
Gilroy, Linda
Goodman, Helen
Griffith, Nia
Griffiths, Nigel
Grogan, Mr. John
Gwynne, Andrew
Hain, rh Mr. Peter
Hall, Mr. Mike
Hall, Patrick
Hanson, rh Mr. David
Harman, rh Ms Harriet
Harris, Mr. Tom
Havard, Mr. Dai
Healey, John
Henderson, Mr. Doug
Hendrick, Mr. Mark
Heppell, Mr. John
Hesford, Stephen
Hewitt, rh Ms Patricia
Heyes, David
Hill, rh Keith
Hillier, Meg
Hodgson, Mrs. Sharon
Hoey, Kate
Hood, Mr. Jim
Hoon, rh Mr. Geoffrey
Hope, Phil
Hopkins, Kelvin
Howarth, rh Mr. George
Howells, Dr. Kim
Hoyle, Mr. Lindsay
Hughes, rh Beverley
Humble, Mrs. Joan
Hutton, rh Mr. John
Iddon, Dr. Brian
Irranca-Davies, Huw
James, Mrs. Siân C.
Jenkins, Mr. Brian
Johnson, rh Alan
Jones, Helen
Jones, Mr. Kevan
Jones, Lynne
Jones, Mr. Martyn
Jowell, rh Tessa
Joyce, Mr. Eric
Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald
Keeble, Ms Sally
Keeley, Barbara
Keen, Alan
Kemp, Mr. Fraser
Kennedy, rh Jane
Khan, Mr. Sadiq
Kidney, Mr. David
Kilfoyle, Mr. Peter
Knight, Jim
Ladyman, Dr. Stephen
Lammy, Mr. David
Laxton, Mr. Bob
Lazarowicz, Mark
Lepper, David
Levitt, Tom
Lewis, Mr. Ivan
Linton, Martin
Lloyd, Tony
Lucas, Ian
MacShane, rh Mr. Denis
Mactaggart, Fiona
Mahmood, Mr. Khalid
Malik, Mr. Shahid
Mallaber, Judy
Mann, John
Marris, Rob
Marsden, Mr. Gordon
Marshall-Andrews, Mr. Robert
Martlew, Mr. Eric
McAvoy, rh Mr. Thomas
McCabe, Steve
McCafferty, Chris
McCarthy, Kerry
McCarthy-Fry, Sarah
McDonagh, Siobhain
McDonnell, John
McFadden, Mr. Pat
McGuire, Mrs. Anne
McIsaac, Shona
McKechin, Ann
McKenna, Rosemary
McNulty, rh Mr. Tony
Meacher, rh Mr. Michael
Merron, Gillian
Michael, rh Alun
Miliband, rh David
Miliband, rh Edward
Miller, Andrew
Mitchell, Mr. Austin
Moffat, Anne
Moffatt, Laura
Mole, Chris
Moon, Mrs. Madeleine
Morgan, Julie
Morley, rh Mr. Elliot
Mudie, Mr. George
Mullin, Mr. Chris
Munn, Meg
Murphy, Mr. Denis
Murphy, rh Mr. Paul
Naysmith, Dr. Doug
Norris, Dan
O'Brien, Mr. Mike
O'Hara, Mr. Edward
Olner, Mr. Bill
Owen, Albert
Palmer, Dr. Nick
Pearson, Ian
Plaskitt, Mr. James
Pound, Stephen
Prentice, Bridget
Prentice, Mr. Gordon
Prescott, rh Mr. John
Primarolo, rh Dawn
Purnell, rh James
Rammell, Bill
Raynsford, rh Mr. Nick
Reed, Mr. Andy
Reed, Mr. Jamie
Riordan, Mrs. Linda
Robertson, John
Robinson, Mr. Geoffrey
Rooney, Mr. Terry
Roy, Mr. Frank
Ruane, Chris
Ruddock, Joan
Russell, Christine
Ryan, rh Joan
Sarwar, Mr. Mohammad
Seabeck, Alison
Sharma, Mr. Virendra
Shaw, Jonathan
Sheerman, Mr. Barry
Sheridan, Jim
Simon, Mr. Siôn
Simpson, Alan
Singh, Mr. Marsha
Skinner, Mr. Dennis
Slaughter, Mr. Andy
Smith, rh Mr. Andrew
Smith, Ms Angela C. (Sheffield, Hillsborough)
Smith, Angela E. (Basildon)
Smith, Geraldine
Smith, rh Jacqui
Snelgrove, Anne
Soulsby, Sir Peter
Southworth, Helen
Spellar, rh Mr. John
Spink, Bob
Starkey, Dr. Phyllis
Stewart, Ian
Stoate, Dr. Howard
Strang, rh Dr. Gavin
Straw, rh Mr. Jack
Stringer, Graham
Sutcliffe, Mr. Gerry
Taylor, David
Thornberry, Emily
Timms, rh Mr. Stephen
Tipping, Paddy
Todd, Mr. Mark
Touhig, rh Mr. Don
Trickett, Jon
Truswell, Mr. Paul
Turner, Dr. Desmond
Turner, Mr. Neil
Twigg, Derek
Ussher, Kitty
Walley, Joan
Waltho, Lynda
Ward, Claire
Watson, Mr. Tom
Watts, Mr. Dave
Whitehead, Dr. Alan
Wicks, Malcolm
Williams, rh Mr. Alan
Williams, Mrs. Betty
Wills, Mr. Michael
Wilson, Phil
Winnick, Mr. David
Winterton, rh Ms Rosie
Woodward, rh Mr. Shaun
Woolas, Mr. Phil
Wright, Mr. Anthony
Wright, David
Wright, Mr. Iain
Wright, Dr. Tony
Tellers for the Noes:
Mark Tami and
Ms Diana R. Johnson
Question accordingly negatived.
Question, That the proposed words be there added, put forthwith, pursuant to Standing Order No. 31 (Questions on amendments), and agreed to.
Mr Deputy Speaker forthwith declared the main Question, as amended, to be agreed to.
That this House notes that the purpose of the fiscal framework is to smooth the path of the economy in the short term, to secure sustainable public finances in the medium term and to ensure that spending and taxation impact fairly between generations; recognises the success of the framework over the past decade, reversing historical under-investment in the infrastructure of public services, reducing debt from 43 per cent. of GDP in 1997 to below 37 per cent. last year and allowing borrowing to increase this year in order to support the economy; welcomes the £4 billion of tax cuts helping families and businesses this year; further notes the turmoil in the world economy and financial markets; recognises that Government is rightly focused on the turbulence in the financial markets and helping families and businesses with the twin shocks of the credit crunch and high commodity prices; and welcomes the Government’s commitment to take whatever steps are necessary to protect the stability of the financial system.’.
Unemployment in the UK
Mr. Deputy Speaker (Sir Alan Haselhurst): I have to inform the House that Mr. Speaker has selected the amendment in the name of the Prime Minister. I must also announce to the House that I am placing a 12-minute limit on Back-Bench speeches in this debate.
7.18 pm
Chris Grayling (Epsom and Ewell) (Con): I beg to move,
That this House notes with concern the recent increases in unemployment, and the widespread forecasts that the total may rise in the months ahead; further notes that the UK already has almost five million people in receipt of out of work benefits; and calls on the Government to implement measures to help British business secure existing jobs and to improve the back to work support available to those who do become unemployed.
Before I begin my remarks, may I welcome the members of the rather extensively new Department for Work and Pensions team to their positions? There has been a big change in the departmental ranks, but we on the Conservative Benches look forward to debating with all of them in the weeks and months ahead.
Much of the media attention over the past couple of weeks has rightly been on the crisis in the financial markets, which was the subject of the earlier debate this afternoon. In the second debate today I want to turn the attention of the House to an issue that is becoming an increasingly big concern for people around the country: unemployment. None of us wants to see the unemployment rate rise. We all hope that the gloomier forecasts about unemployment prove to be over-pessimistic, but the truth is that things are getting worse, and not only in the financial services sector. Yesterday, we had 600 jobs lost at the automotive firm LSUK in Sheffield. One thousand people per day are currently joining the dole queue. Unemployment is up by more than 40 per cent. in some areas. Employment is falling; vacancies are down by 60,000, and youth unemployment stands at more than 1.25 million.
Chris Ruane (Vale of Clwyd) (Lab): The hon. Gentleman mentioned employment levels, so may I inform him that in 1997 the employment level in my constituency was 23,000 and in 2007 it was 29,000? Does he know the employment levels for his constituency over that period?
Chris Grayling: The hon. Gentleman will find that the headline figures on employment levels that the Government and Ministers have been bandying around in recent weeks do not tell the whole story, and I shall return to his remarks shortly.
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