Schedule
9
Disposals
of dwelling-houses by local
authorities
Mr.
Wright:
I beg to move amendment No. 137, in
schedule 9, page 162, line 40, at
end insert—
‘( ) in
subsection (1) for “Secretary of State’s”
substitute “appropriate national
body’s”,’.
The
Chairman:
With this it will be convenient to discuss
Government amendments Nos. 138 to 146 and 148 to
153.
Mr.
Wright:
Sections 34 and 43 of the Housing Act 1985 provide
powers to the Secretary of State and Welsh Ministers to grant consent
to a local authority to dispose of tenanted properties. I am
disappointed that the right hon. Member for North-West Hampshire is not
here to combat these points with me.
The schedule amends those
sections to preserve certain requirements and definitions that would
otherwise be lost through repeal of section 135 of the Leasehold
Reform, Housing and Urban Development Act 1993. That section requires
that a local authority first be accepted by the Secretary of State on
an annual disposals programme before seeking her consent to dispose of
500 or more tenanted homes under section 34 or 43 of the 1985 Act. The
amendments to schedule 9 are intended to remove that
prerequisite.
The
amendments are relatively technical and are intended to ensure the
correct application of the law in England and Wales following the
devolution settlement, as housing is now a matter devolved to the Welsh
Ministers. They simply replace references to the Secretary of State in
sections 34 and 43 of the 1985 Act with the term “appropriate
national body”, which is defined as the Secretary of State in
England and Welsh Ministers in
Wales.
Amendment
agreed
to.
Amendments
made: No. 138, in
schedule 9, page 163, line 1, leave
out ‘(4A),’ and insert
‘(4A)—
(i) for
“Secretary of State” substitute “appropriate
national body”,
(ii)
’.
No.
139, in
schedule 9, page 163, line 3, leave
out ‘by a local authority in England, the Secretary of
State’s’ and insert ‘, the appropriate national
body’s’.
No. 140, in
schedule 9, page 163, line 6, at
end insert—
‘(iii) in
paragraph (d) for “he” substitute “the appropriate
national body”,
and’.
No.
141, in
schedule 9, page 163, line 10, leave
out ‘Secretary of State’ and insert ‘appropriate
national
body’.
No. 142,
in
schedule 9, page 163, line 13, at
end
insert—
‘“appropriate
national
body”—
(a) in
relation to England, means the Secretary of State;
and
(b) in relation to Wales,
means the Welsh
Ministers;’.
No.
143, in
schedule 9, page 163, line 38, leave
out ‘Secretary of State’ and insert ‘appropriate
national
body’.
No. 144,
in
schedule 9, page 163, line 49, leave
out ‘Secretary of State’ and insert ‘appropriate
national
body’.
No. 145,
in
schedule 9, page 164, line 18, leave
out ‘Secretary of State’ and insert ‘appropriate
national
body’.
No. 146,
in
schedule 9, page 164, line 22, leave
out ‘Secretary of State’ and insert ‘appropriate
national body’.—[Mr.
Wright.]
Mr.
Wright:
I beg to move amendment No. 147, in
schedule 9, page 164, line 23, leave
out from ‘which’ to the end of line 25 and insert
‘—
(i) in the case of an
order made by the Secretary of State, is subject to annulment in
pursuance of a resolution of either House of Parliament;
and
(ii) in the case of an
order made by the Welsh Ministers, is subject to annulment in pursuance
of a resolution of the National Assembly for
Wales;’.
The
amendment ensures correct application of the law in England and Wales
following the devolution settlement. As I mentioned earlier, housing is
a matter devolved to Welsh Ministers, and sections 34 and 43 of the
Housing Act 1985 provide powers to the Secretary of State and Welsh
Ministers to grant consent to a local authority to dispose of tenanted
properties. As already mentioned, section 135 of the Leasehold Reform,
Housing and Urban Development Act 1993 requires that a local authority
first be accepted by the Secretary of State on an annual disposals
programme before seeking her consent to a large-scale disposal under
sections 34 or 43.
Schedule 9
repeals section 135, but amends sections 34 and 43 to preserve certain
requirements and definitions otherwise lost. One requirement is that
the cost to the Exchequer of any large-scale disposal be considered
before consent is given, and the amendments provide powers to make
orders with respect to such disposals. The orders might amend the
number of homes considered to constitute a large-scale disposal, which
is currently 500 or more, or the time period during which a large-scale
disposal might be deemed to have taken place, which is currently five
years ending with the date of the disposal. There are other
transitional and supplementary provisions as deemed
necessary.
The
amendment simply makes it clear that any such order, if made by the
Secretary of State, will be subject
to annulment in pursuance of a resolution by either House, while any
such order made by Welsh Ministers will be subject to annulment in
pursuance of a resolution of the National Assembly for Wales. As with
the earlier group of amendments, this is a technical matter to take
into account the devolution settlement. I hope, therefore, that the
Committee will accept the amendment.
Lembit
Öpik:
The Minister is probably not aware that there
was a huge amount of debate on the relative jurisdiction of the Welsh
Assembly and the Secretary of State for Wales following the most recent
Government of Wales Bill. In essence, the argument was that those most
in favour of devolution were concerned that the Secretary of State had,
at least in theory, the power to disregard the wishes of the Welsh
Assembly. Conceptually, given the technical elements of the
legislation, that could recentralise decision making in Westminster
regardless of the wishes of the Assembly.
I recognise that the Minister
may not be able to answer the question now, but in that case I would be
grateful if he would write to me. Can he clarify whether there is any
situation in which an order made by Welsh Ministers could be annulled
or modified by the Secretary of State for Wales? I stress again; he may
not have the answer now, but, in the Welsh context, it would help me to
have an answer at some point.
Mr.
Wright:
The hon. Gentleman is right; I do not have the
answer to hand, but I will write to him and copy other Members of the
Committee in.
Amendment agreed
to.
Amendments
made: No. 148, in
schedule 9, page 164 line 30, leave
out ‘Secretary of State’ and insert ‘appropriate
national
body’.
No. 149,
in
schedule 9, page 164, line 38, at
end insert—
‘( ) in
subsection (1) for “Secretary of State” substitute
“appropriate national
body”,’.
No.
150, in
schedule 9, page 164, line 39, leave
out ‘(4A),’ and insert
‘(4A)—
(i) for
“Secretary of State” substitute “appropriate
national body”,
(ii)
’.
No.
151, in
schedule 9, page 164, line 42, leave
out ‘by a local authority in England, the Secretary of
State’s’ and insert ‘, the appropriate national
body’s’.
No.
152, in
schedule 9, page 164, line 44, at
end insert—
‘(iii) in
paragraph (d) for “he” substitute “the appropriate
national body”,
and’.
No.
153, in
schedule 9, page 164, line 48, leave
out ‘Secretary of State’ and insert ‘appropriate
national body’.—[Mr.
Wright.]
Mr.
Wright:
I beg to move amendment No. 154, in
schedule 9, page 165, line 8, at
end insert—
‘Housing Act 1988 (c.
50)
In section 133(3) of the Housing Act 1988
(consent required for certain subsequent disposals)—
(a) in paragraph (a) for “and (3) to
(4A)” substitute “, (3), (4) and (4A)(a) to (c) and
(d)”,
(b) in paragraph
(b) for “and (3) to (4A)” substitute “, (3), (4)
and (4A)(a) to (c) and (d)”,
and
(c) in paragraph (c) for
“(4A)” substitute “(4A)(a) to (c) and
(d)”.’.
The
Chairman:
With this it will be convenient to discuss
Government amendment No. 155.
Mr.
Wright:
Amendment No. 154 is a consequential amendment
necessitated by amendments to the Housing Act 1985 caused by Schedule 9
to the Bill. Section 133 of the Housing Act 1988 deals with onward
disposals of homes. It requires that should an organisation, which in
practically every case is a registered social landlord, want to dispose
of homes that a local authority has transferred to it—as a
result of the Secretary of State granting her consent to do so, under
section 34 or 43 of the Housing Act 1985—it must obtain the
consent of the Secretary of State before doing
so.
The
requirement was introduced to give local authority tenants whose homes
were passing out of local authority ownership some comfort that, should
their new landlords want to sell on their homes, the Secretary of State
would ensure that they were properly protected. Section 133 requires
that before granting consent the Secretary of State should take into
account matters considered when granting the original consent under
section 34 or 43. The amendment does not change the position; indeed,
it preserves it. It is necessary because the current provision refers
to section 135 of the Leasehold Reform, Housing and Urban Development
Act 1993, which schedule 9
repeals.
The
amendment requires the Secretary of State to consider the Exchequer
costs of a further disposal because that should have no impact on
Exchequer costs. If a local authority makes the onward transfer, so the
transfer is the first transfer away from local authority ownership, the
Secretary of State will be required to give consent under section 32 or
43 of the Housing Act 1985, and will consider the Exchequer costs in
that event and at that time. Value for money and any effect on the
public purse is already considered as part of the consent
process.
The first
part of amendment No. 155 is simply a clarification. Schedule 9 ensures
that definitions contained in section 135 of the Leasehold Reform,
Housing and Urban Development Act 1993 are preserved by inserting them
into section 136 of that Act. The amendment makes it clear that the
reference to the Secretary of State in the transplanted definitions
should be read in the same way as references to the Secretary of State
elsewhere in that
section.
The second
part of amendment No. 155 relates to definitions of social landlords
and registered charities for the purposes of section 51 in schedule 1
to the Housing Act 1996. The definitions include a body that had been
the recipient of a large-scale disposal of property by a local
authority under section 135 of the Leasehold Reform, Housing and Urban
Development Act 1993.
As I have said several times
this morning, schedule 9 repeals section 135 but retains the definition
of a large-scale disposal through amendments to section 34
or 43 of the 1985 Act. The amendment therefore amends the definitions in
the Housing Act 1996 to ensure that they include organisations that
have inherited a large-scale disposal of stock either under section 135
or in future under the amended sections 34 or
43. I hope that I have
explained the situation adequately.
Amendment agreed
to.
Amendment
made: No. 155, in
schedule 9, page 165, line 44, at
end insert—
‘(5) The
reference to the Secretary of State in subsection (15) of section 136
of the Act of 1993, as inserted by sub-paragraph (3) above, is to be
read in the same way as other references to the Secretary of State in
that section of that Act.
Housing Act
1996 (c. 52)
(1) The Housing Act 1996
is amended as follows.
(2) In
section 51(2)(b) (schemes for investigation of complaints) for
“a qualifying disposal” substitute
“—
(i) a large
scale disposal, within the meaning of section 34 of the Housing Act
1985, for which consent was required under section 32 or 43 of that
Act; or
(ii) a qualifying
disposal that was
made”.
(3) In paragraph
5(1)(b) of Part 2 of Schedule 1 (constitution, change of rules,
amalgamation and dissolution: restriction on power of removal in case
of registered charity) for “a qualifying disposal”
substitute “—
(i)
a large scale disposal, within the meaning of section 34 of the Housing
Act 1985, for which consent was required under section 32 or 43 of that
Act, or
(ii) a qualifying
disposal that was
made”.
(4) In paragraph
28(1)(b) of Part 4 of Schedule 1 (inquiry into affairs of registered
social landlords: availability of powers in relation to registered
charities) for “a qualifying disposal” substitute
“—
(i) a large
scale disposal, within the meaning of section 34 of the Housing Act
1985, for which consent was required under section 32 or 43 of that
Act, or
(ii) a qualifying
disposal that was made”.’.—[Mr.
Wright.]
Schedule
9, as amended, agreed
to.
Clause
268
Financial
assistance for information and other
services
Amendment
proposed: No. 117, in
clause 268, page 113, line 21, leave
out ‘and’.—[Mr.
Wright.]
The
Chairman:
With this it will be convenient to discuss
Government amendments Nos. 118 to 122.
Mr.
Wright:
Amendments Nos. 117 and 118 make changes to clause
268, which in turn widens the existing power in section 94 of the
Housing Act 1996 for the Secretary of State in England and Welsh
Ministers in Wales to give financial assistance to any person in
relation to the provision by them of general advice about landlord and
tenant law and estate management schemes in connection with leasehold
enfranchisement.
Amendments
Nos. 119 to 122 make changes to clause 273, which widens the existing
power in section 62 of the Commonhold and Leasehold Reform Act
2002 for the Lord Chancellor to give financial assistance to any person
in relation to the provision by them of general advice about an aspect
of the law of commonhold land so far as it relates to residential
matters. 11.15
am
The purpose of
clauses 268 and 273 and the amendments is to widen the existing powers
contained in section 94 of the Housing Act 1996 and section 62 of the
Commonhold and Leasehold Reform Act 2002 to allow financial assistance
for the giving of information, training and dispute resolution services
in relation to the matter
specified.
The power
under the Housing Act 1996 is used by the Department for Communities
and Local Government and the Ministry of Justice to provide grant in
aid to fund the Leasehold Advisory Service, known as LEASE, an
executive, non-departmental public body which I am sure that hon.
Members have contacted in relation to constituency matters. LEASE also
provides an important front-line advisory role in respect of
residential leasehold law as it affects England and Wales, as well as
other leasehold-related functions.
The Welsh Assembly Government
also uses section 94 to provide a contribution, currently in the region
of £17,000 a year, towards the services that LEASE provides to
leaseholders in
Wales.
The power under
the Commonhold and Leasehold Reform Act 2002 is currently used by the
Lord Chancellor to fund the Leasehold Advisory Service to provide
advice on the law of commonhold land relating to residential
matters.
The need for
these amendments came to light, Mr. Gale, after clauses 268
and 273 had become part of the original Bill. These amendments are
important in that they allow the clauses to achieve their original
intention. Amendments Nos. 117 and 118 allow funding to be given for
the provision of advice, information and a dispute resolution service
for leaseholders and the leasehold sector in general in relation to a
wider range of leasehold-related
matters.
There was
concern that the advice had to be restricted to legal matters. The
amendments, combined with clause 268 itself, would create a funding
provision that is more appropriate to today’s needs, and to the
provision of good, independent general advice and related services for
leaseholders and the leasehold sector in general.
As for amendments Nos. 119 to
122, the original intention underlying clause 273 was to enable the
Lord Chancellor to fund a wider range of services, including
information, training and dispute resolution in relation to residential
commonholds. These services will supplement the funding of general
advice. They will increase knowledge of commonhold and improve the
quality of the experience of living in a commonhold. The amendments
also make it clear that the funding may be used even if the matter at
issue is not strictly a matter of commonhold law narrowly
defined.
I hope that
I have explained the situation adequately, Mr.
Gale.
Amendment
agreed to.
Amendment
made: No. 118, in
clause 268, page 113, line 22, at
end insert—
‘(c) at the end
of paragraph (a), after “tenancies,”,
insert—
“(aa) any
other matter relating to residential tenancies,”,
and
(d) in paragraph (b), at
the beginning, insert “any matter relating
to”.
(2) In the heading
of section 94 of that Act (and the italic cross-heading before it) for
“legal advice” substitute “advice
etc.”’.—[Mr.
Wright.]
Clause 268, as
amended,
ordered to stand part of the
Bill.
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