New
Schedule
2
‘Pension
compensation on divorce etc:
Scotland
1 The Family Law
(Scotland) Act 1985 (c. 37) is amended as
follows.
2 In section 8 (orders
for financial provision)—
(a) in
subsection (1)—
(i)
after paragraph (baa)
insert—
“(bab) a
pension compensation sharing
order;”,
(ii) after
paragraph (ba)
insert—
“(bb) an
order under section
12B(2);”,
(b) subsection
(4A) is repealed,
(c) after
subsection (7)
add—
“(8) The
court shall not, in the same proceedings, make both a pension
compensation sharing order and an order under section 12B(2) in
relation to the same PPF
compensation.
(9) The court
shall not make a pension compensation sharing order in relation to
rights to PPF compensation
that—
(a) derive from
rights under a pension scheme which, at the time the Board of the
Pension Protection Fund assumed responsibility for the scheme, was
subject to an order made under section 12A(2) or (3) in relation to the
marriage or (as the case may be) civil partnership or a previous one
between the same persons,
(b)
derive from rights under a pension scheme which were at any time the
subject of a pension sharing order in relation to the marriage or (as
the case may be) civil partnership or a previous one between the same
persons,
(c) are or have been
the subject of a pension compensation sharing order in relation to the
marriage or (as the case may be) civil partnership or a previous one
between the same persons, or
(d) are or have been the subject of an order made
under section 12B(2) in relation to the marriage or (as the case may
be) civil partnership or a previous one between the same
persons.
(10)
Where, as regards PPF compensation, the parties to a marriage or the
partners in a civil partnership have in effect a qualifying agreement
which contains a term relating to pension compensation sharing, the
court shall not—
(a)
make an order under section 12B(2);
or
(b) make a pension
compensation sharing
order,
relating to the
compensation unless it also sets aside the agreement or term under
section 16(1)(b) of this
Act.
(11) For the purposes of
subsection (10)—
(a) the
expression “term relating to pension compensation
sharing” is to be construed by reference to section 16(2AA) of
this Act; and
(b) a qualifying
agreement is one to which section 84(2) of the Pensions Act 2008
relates.”
3
After section 8A insert—
“8B
Pension compensation sharing orders: apportionment of
charges
The court may include
in a pension compensation sharing order provision about apportionment
between the parties of any charge under section 91 of the Pensions Act
2008 or under corresponding Northern Ireland
legislation.”
4
In section 10 (sharing of value of matrimonial property or partnership
property)—
(a) in subsection (5A),
for the words from “compensation payable” to “that
Chapter” substitute “PPF
compensation”,
(b) for
subsection (8B)
substitute—
“(8B)
The Scottish Ministers may by regulations make provision for the
purposes of this Act
about—
(a) calculation
and verification of PPF
compensation,
(b) apportionment
of PPF compensation.
(8C)
Regulations under subsection (8B) may include
provision—
(a) for
calculation or verification in a manner approved by a prescribed
person,
(b) by reference to
regulations under section 86 of the Pensions Act
2008.”
5 In
section 12A (orders for payment of capital sum: pensions lump sums), in
subsection (7ZC), for the words “Notwithstanding the provisions
of section 8(4A), for” substitute
“For”.
6 After
section 12A insert—
“12B
Order for payment of capital sum: pension
compensation
(1) This section
applies where the court makes an order under section 8(2) for payment
of a capital sum (a “capital sum order”) by a party to a
marriage or a partner in a civil partnership (“the liable
person”) in circumstances where the matrimonial or (as the case
may be) partnership property within the meaning of section 10 includes
any rights to PPF
compensation.
(2) On making the
capital sum order, the court may make an additional order requiring the
Board of the Pension Protection Fund, if at any time any payment in
respect of PPF compensation becomes due to the liable person, to pay
the whole or part of that payment to the other party or (as the case
may be) other partner (“the other
person”).
(3) Any such
payment by the Board of the Pension Protection
Fund—
(a) shall
discharge so much of its liability to the liable person as corresponds
to the amount of the payment,
and
(b) shall be treated for
all purposes as a payment made by the liable person in or towards the
discharge of the person’s liability under the capital sum
order.
(4) Where the liability of the
liable person under the capital sum order has been discharged in whole
or in part, other than by a payment by the Board of the Pension
Protection Fund, the court may, on an application by any person having
an interest, recall the order or vary the amount specified in such an
order as appears to the court appropriate in the
circumstances.
(5) The court
may not make an additional order under subsection (2) in relation to
rights to PPF compensation
that—
(a) derive from
rights under a pension scheme which, at the time the Board of the
Pension Protection Fund assumed responsibility for the scheme, was
subject to an order made under section 12A(2) or (3) in relation to the
marriage or (as the case may be) civil partnership or a previous one
between the same persons,
(b)
derive from rights under a pension scheme which were at any time the
subject of a pension sharing order in relation to the marriage or (as
the case may be) civil partnership or a previous one between the same
persons,
(c) are or have been
the subject of a pension compensation sharing order in relation to the
marriage or (as the case may be) civil partnership or a previous one
between the same persons,
or
(d) are or have been the
subject of an order made under subsection (2) in relation to the
marriage or (as the case may be) civil partnership or a previous one
between the same
persons.”
7
In section 13 (order for periodical allowance), in subsection (2)(b),
after the words “pension sharing order” insert “or
pension compensation sharing
order”.
8 In section 16
(agreements on financial
provision)—
(a) in subsection
(2)(b), for the words “does not contain a term relating to
pension sharing” substitute “contains neither a term
relating to pension sharing nor a term relating to pension compensation
sharing”,
(b) in
subsection (2)(c), after the word “sharing” in the first
place where it occurs insert “or pension compensation
sharing”,
(c) in
subsection (2)(c)(i), after the word “sharing” insert
“or (as the case may be) the term relating to pension
compensation
sharing”,
(d) after
subsection (2A),
insert—
“(2AA)
For the purpose of subsection (2), a term relating to pension
compensation sharing is a term corresponding to provision which may be
made in a pension compensation sharing order and satisfying the
requirements set out in section 84(1)(g) of the Pensions Act
2008.”
9 In
section 27 (interpretation)—
(a) in
subsection (1), before the definition of “pension sharing
order”
insert—
““pension
compensation sharing order” is an order
which—
(a)
provides that one party’s shareable rights to PPF compensation
be subject to pension compensation sharing for the benefit of the other
party, and
(b) specifies the
percentage value to be
transferred;”,
(b) after
subsection (1A)
insert—
“(1B) In
subsection (1), in the definition of “pension compensation
sharing order”, the reference to shareable rights to PPF
compensation is to rights in relation to which pension compensation
sharing is available under Chapter 1 of Part 3 of the Pensions Act 2008
or under corresponding Northern Ireland
legislation.
(1C) In this
Act—
“PPF
compensation” means compensation payable under the
pension compensation provisions,
“the pension compensation provisions”
means—
(a) Chapter 3 of
Part 2 of the Pensions Act 2004 and any regulations or order made under
it,
(b) Chapter 1 of Part 3 of
the Pensions Act 2008 and any regulations or order made under
it,
(c) any provision
corresponding to the provisions mentioned in paragraph (a) or (b) in
force in Northern Ireland.”’.—[Mr.
Mike
O'Brien.]
Brought
up, read the First
and Second
time, and added to the
Bill.
Ordered,
That
certain written evidence already reported to the House be appended to
the proceedings of the Committee.—[Mr. Mike
O'Brien.]
Mr.
O'Brien:
On a point of order, Sir Nicholas. We seem to
have moved ahead at full steam and I had not thought that I would not
be here for this part of our proceedings. However, everything has
progressed faster than any of us perhaps expected, so I am here, and I
am pleased that I
am.
Members of the
Committee are grateful to you, Sir Nicholas, and to your colleague,
Mrs. Anderson, for your firm and fair steering of the
Committee over the past three weeks. It has been a pleasure to serve as
a member of a Committee chaired by you both. I would also like to
extend warm thanks to all members of the Committee, especially my hon.
Friends, but also Opposition Members, especially the hon. Members for
Eastbourne, for South-West Bedfordshire, for Rochdale and for
Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey, all of whom have made
Front-Bench contributions. I particularly pay tribute to the hon.
Member for Ryedale, who, along with the hon. Member for Bromsgrove, has
made significant contributions with his knowledge and
skill.
I thank my
colleagues for their help. Pensions matters can get tedious, but I am
sure that they have got through a lot of correspondence and that their
constituents are well informed as a result. The debate has dealt with
some important issues that will affect many millions of people. It is
important that we deal with this in as consensual a way as possible and
that we bring together
stakeholders.
I was
particularly pleased that we were able to have the oral evidence
sessions at the beginning of our consideration of the Bill. A number of
organisations were able to come forward: the ABI, Age Concern, the ACA,
the BCC, the CBI, the EEF, and lots of other initials. The Equality and
Human Rights Commission, the Federation of Small Businesses, Help the
Aged, Which?, the TUC, the Pensions Policy Institute and others were
all able to inform our debate. The result has been that the quality of
the debate from both sides has been particularly good. The information
that we received from the three pensions commissioners who gave
evidence was invaluable, as was the help that we received from Paul
Myners and Tim Jones from the Personal Accounts Delivery Authority. I
thank them all for their contributions.
I thank the Under-Secretary of
State for Work and Pensions, my hon. Friend the Member for Warwick and
Leamington, for his contributions, and I extend a particular word of
thanks to my Parliamentary Private Secretary, my hon. Friend the Member
for Coventry,
South, and also to our Whip, who has made a very welcome contribution at
various stages of our proceedings. I also wish to extend my grateful
thanks to the officials in my Department who have briefed me, the
parliamentary counsel who drafted the Bill with expertise, the police
and other officials, Hansard and the Clerk of the Committee, all
of whom have ensured that we were able to carry through an important
Bill with a great deal of proper consideration and detailed
understanding by members of the Committee. Our proceedings have taken
place in a spirit of goodwill, good humour and consideration. I hope
that we can look forward to the rest of the Bill’s progress
through the House and the other place being conducted in a similar
way.
Mr.
Waterson:
Further to that point of order, Sir Nicholas.
May I add my thanks to those of the Minister to your
and your fellow chairman—I hope that you will pass those thanks
on to Mrs Anderson—and to all the officials, the Hansard
writers, the Clerks, the police and all the other staff who have made
this such a smooth running Committee? I would like to thank the
Ministers for their unfailing courtesy and their amazing ability to
keep a straight face while advancing the most preposterous
arguments—it was quite an achievement, but they have both had a
lot of practice.
The
Chairman:
Order. I am not sure that there can be an
intervention on a point of
order.
Mr.
Waterson:
I would like to thank the Labour members of the
Committee, particularly the Whip—the velvet fist inside the
velvet glove. The hon. Member for Caerphilly has been the big cheese,
as it were, of the Committee. He kept us all running to time, or
slightly ahead of time, in
fact.
I usually try to
enliven these events by trawling through hon. Members’
biographies that are on the internet, but this time there have been
fairly slim pickings. However, I was taken aback by the unconscious
irony of the hon. Member for Brent, South, who sadly is not here. Her
biography says:
“From an early age I
knew that as a woman in a male dominated society you have to be active
and assertive, or else you won’t be heard. I am part of a
generation who grew up in the Thatcher years and didn’t like
it.”
There is a bizarre
contradiction there. Obviously she thought that the Thatcher years were
those of a male-dominated society.
The Liberal Democrats, as
always, have enlivened our debates. I referred before to the fact that
the constituency of the hon. Member for Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and
Strathspey includes part of Loch Ness. It is rather reminiscent of
Liberal Democrat pensions policy: sometimes through the mist we thought
that we perceived a shape, but then we rubbed our eyes and saw that
there was nothing there at all.
I thank my colleagues on the
Committee. To match the efforts of the Government
Whip, we have had to have two different Whips: my hon. Friends the
Members
for Peterborough (Mr. Jackson) and for Rochford and Southend,
East, both of whom served the Committee admirably and well. I pay
particular tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for South-West
Bedfordshire, who has worked extremely hard on a large part of the
Bill. He brought his own expertise to discussions about the Territorial
Army, among other things, and his personal commitments and beliefs to
some of the other issues,
too. I am also
grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Ryedale, who has brought
enormous experience and expertise to the Committee. In fact, sometimes
I thought that he was doing a better job than Ministers in responding
to some points. I also thank my hon. Friend the Member for Bromsgrove,
who talked passionately about the pensions victims in her own
constituency. I know that she has followed these issues closely for
some time.
I entirely
agree with the Minister about the benefits of oral evidence. There
might be Bills on which that might not be so helpful, but in this case
it put into context a lot of the discussions that we were to have.
There were times when we had a big array of witnesses and they were
almost all very helpful indeed. However, for those involved in
pensions, life is one long seminar and I see the Committee as just
another stage in that process. Of course, there is another seminar in a
week or two, which has been organised by the indefatigable Pensions
Policy Institute, to talk about means-testing and so on, so life goes
on. Really, this is all part of the same process for people in the
pensions world.
We
regret that some of our more sensible ideas were not embraced by the
Government, but as I have said before, we have pencilled them in for
the pensions Bill that will be introduced under the next Conservative
Government in a year or two. I thank you, Sir Nicholas, for your
unfailing courtesy and helpfulness in allowing this Committee stage to
go so well. We look forward to the next pensions
Bill.
Paul
Rowen:
Further to that point of order, Sir Nicholas. May I
also thank you and your co-Chair for the efficient and courteous way in
which you have conducted proceedings? This has been my first pensions
Bill, although I know that many hon. Members here have been through
several and survived. We all are indebted to the Clerks, who assisted
us in ensuring that our amendments made it on to the amendment paper. I
am also grateful to members of Hansard and the police, who have
helped to make our proceedings go well.
I would also like to thank the
two Ministers. We have had a continuous dialogue throughout the
Committee and have regularly had copies of letters that the Ministers
have sent on issues that we have raised, so I thank them for that. I
genuinely feel that we have had a proper dialogue in which they have
agreed to change and look at various things. That demonstrates the best
aspects of the Committee system, when everything is not a closed book
and is open to debate.
Again, I support what has been
said about the involvement of outside bodies in the oral evidence
sessions, which informed the debate considerably. I have particularly
enjoyed listening to the hon. Member for Ryedale, who obviously knows a
great deal more
about pensions than I do. I thank the Government Whip and Labour and
Conservative Members for the pleasant way in which we have gone about
the proceedings.
Mr.
Greenway:
Further to that point of order, Sir Nicholas. I
endorse everything that has been said and I am grateful for the
comments that have been made about my contributions. However, there is
one serious point that I want you to take from the Committee, given
your membership of other Committees. I must confess that I found the
evidence session, which preceded our normal scrutiny of the Bill, an
extremely enlightening and constructive experiment. I have thought back
to the first time that I was in Committee Room 10 in the autumn of 1987
when we were sitting on the other side of the room and not allowed to
say anything. The yah-boo-sucks politics that took place in Standing
Committees in those days was unconstructive, unhelpful and did not
improve the quality of legislation. One of the reasons why this
Committee has been so constructive and has ended up with better
arguments is that so many issues were brought out in public during the
evidence
sessions.
From an
Opposition point of view, in wanting to give the Government a run for
their money, a lot of the foxes that we might have run with were shot
by some of the evidence that we received. However, given that the
collective objective of these occasions is to end up with better
legislation, I would urge you, Sir Nicholas, to ensure that when
decisions are taken in this place, the voice of reason calling for more
oral evidence sessions at the start of Public Bill Committees should be
heeded with real vigour. I know that you will share my view and that we
can leave it in your capable hands to make sure that point is duly
registered.
2.15
pm
Mr.
O'Brien:
Further to that point of order, if you will
permit me, Sir Nicholas. I do not want to delay the Committee, but you
ought to be aware of a minor incident that occurred during the course
of these proceedings yet might have escaped your notice. At one stage,
the hon. Member for South-West Bedfordshire put forward a very
constructive point to which my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary
responded by reading the wrong note and setting out an answer to a
point that was not raised—he did so with great eloquence.
Interestingly, the hon. Member for South-West Bedfordshire said in
response that he was greatly
reassured. I can therefore say that the spirit of co-operation and
constructive engagement during the course of this Committee has been
unlike anything that I have ever experienced. Our proceedings have been
very good humoured and I am grateful for
that.
The
Chairman:
The Chairman of a Committee always gets the last
word.
May I thank
members of the Committee for their generous comments about myself and
my co-Chairman, Janet Anderson, which I shall pass on to her? I am sure
she will be as happy as me to have received such generous
comments.
I
congratulate the Committee on the work that it has done during the past
month. It has been a great pleasure to chair this Committee, and I
would like to thank all members of the Committee, particularly the
Front-Bench Members—that includes the Liberal Democrats, of
course—and those with special knowledge. For example, the hon.
Member for Ryedale has added very considerably to the knowledge of the
Committee, which, ultimately, has been to the benefit of the
legislation that we have been considering line by line. The hon. Member
for Bromsgrove and even the hon. Members for Stoke-on-Trent, South and
for South Ribble have put forward proposals succinctly that have added
to the tenor and constructive nature of the
debate.
I thank my
Clerk, and those who have sat in when he has not been here, for their
support and advice. I also thank the Official Report and the
police: clearly they have added to the way this particular Public Bill
Committee has gone so
smoothly.
I think that
this Committee has been an example to the people of this country of how
Parliament actually can, in the right situation, do the job that it is
here to do. We have considered a very important piece of legislation
line by line. It has been done constructively. The usual channels have
worked together and—uniquely one might say—the programme
order has proved to be adequate, although, sadly, on many other
occasions such orders are not. I believe that this Committee and the
way the Government and the Opposition have worked together are examples
that I hope will be understood and taken to heart by the House. I
congratulate all Members on the contributions that they have
made.
Bill, as
amended
,
to be
reported.
Committee
rose at nineteen minutes past Two
o’clock.
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