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Session 2007 - 08 Publications on the internet General Committee Debates Political Parties and Elections Bill |
Political Parties and Elections Bill |
The Committee consisted of the following Members:Chris Shaw, Chris Stanton,
Committee Clerks attended
the Committee Public Bill CommitteeTuesday 11 November 2008(Morning)[Sir Nicholas Winterton in the Chair]Political Parties and Elections Bill10.30
am
The
Chairman: As I normally do, I welcome hon. Members to the
Committee, which is considering the Political Parties and Elections
Bill. This is the first time that we have sat in the traditional
situation of a Public Bill Committee, having previously acted as a
Select Committee to take evidence from distinguished
witnesses. Before
we begin consideration of the Bill, I have a few preliminary
announcements to make. I am always concerned about the comfort of hon.
Members. Although conditions might not be quite so typical of this time
of year, hon. Members may take off their jackets during Committee
sittings, if they so wish. Will all members of the Committee ensure
that electronic gadgets, such as mobile phones and pagers, are turned
off or switched to silent mode during our
proceedings? I
also wish to inform the Committee that, in accordance with
Mr. Speakers statement last Wednesday on
arrangements for today, 11 November, I shall interrupt proceedings at
precisely 11 oclock and invite hon. Members to observe two
minutes
silence. Several
amendments were signed by hon. Members last night, making some of them
selectable today. A revised selection list is available in the room,
and it sets out the list of amendments that have been selected. Members
of the Committee signed some of those amendments late last night, so
that list is the one that should be
used. We
shall now proceed with clause by clause scrutiny of the Bill. In
accordance with the programme motion agreed by the Committee, we will
deal first with clause 4 and amendment No. 16, tabled by the hon.
Member for Epping Forest, who I am delighted to call to
speak.
Clause 4Selection
of prospective Electoral Commissioners and Commission
chairman Mrs.
Eleanor Laing (Epping Forest) (Con): I beg to move
amendment No. 16, in
clause 4, page 3, line 24, at
end insert in accordance with Commissioner
for Public Appointments Code of
Practice.. I
welcome you to the Chair, Sir Nicholas. The Committee looks forward to
the pleasure of serving under your chairmanship during what I am sure
will be constructive and positive consideration of this important Bill.
I wish to say at the outset that, as the clause is about the Electoral
Commission, now is an appropriate moment to pay tribute to all the work
that Sam Younger has done as its chairman. He is about to retire from
that
post, and I am sure that, through his sterling work over the past few
years, he has gained much respect for the
commission. I
welcome most enthusiastically the appointment of Jenny Watson as the
new chairman. I gained experience of her excellent work when she was
chairman of the Equal Opportunities Commission because, at that time, I
was shadow Minister for equality and worked with her. Indeed, Members
on both sides of the House have worked with the Equal Opportunities
Commission and enormous strides have been taken in that area of policy
in recent years. I am sure that, equally, Jenny Watson will bring to
the Electoral Commission enthusiasm, ability and respect for her
work. Amendment
No. 16 is simple and it would merely clarify the situation. The
amendment suggests an addition to clause 4. The clause says
that each
person whose appointment is proposed in the motion has been selected in
accordance with a procedure put in place and overseen by the
Speakers
Committee and
we ought to add after that the
words in
accordance with Commissioner for Public Appointments Code of
Practice. As
well as clarifying the current situation, the amendment would entrench
it in law, which would be
right. The
Electoral Commission has said that it supports the principle of
amendment No. 16, which would require the process of appointing all
electoral commissioners to be in accordance with the public
appointments code of practice. To date, the principles of the code have
been observed in all appointments of electoral commissioners, but there
is no requirement in law for that code of practice to be
observed. The
Bill would be improved and clarified by the amendment. Over the next
few weeks of consideration, we shall seek to clarify the Bill in many
cases, and this is a simple one. As we discussed in the evidence
sessions last week, there are many areas in which the Bill is not
clear, and law that is not clear is not good law. We have here a simple
example in which matters could be
clarified.
The
Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Mr. Michael
Wills): I join the hon. Lady in welcoming you to the
Chair, Sir Nicholas. In the weeks ahead, I am sure that we shall all
benefit from your deft and wise guidance through proceedings on this
important
Bill. I
also join the hon. Lady in paying tribute to the work of Sam Younger at
the Electoral Commission. He had a distinguished career in the BBC,
which he followed by making an important contribution to the work of a
significant body in our public life. I pay tribute to him as he
retires. Once
again I join the hon. Lady, this time in welcoming Jenny Watson to the
chair of the commission. I am sure that she will follow her
distinguished predecessor in an appropriate
manner. Sadly,
after joining the hon. Lady in so much, I must begin proceedings by
resisting her amendment, although I welcome the spirit in which she
moved it, and our side of the Committee welcomes probing amendments and
the opportunity to clarify still further our intentions in the
Bill. The
amendment would alter the clause that covers the selection of
prospective electoral commissioners and specify that appointments must
be in accordance with the Commissioner for Public Appointments code
of practice. Each person whose appointment is proposed in a motion for
appointment as an electoral commissioner has to be selected in
accordance with a procedure put in place and overseen by the
Speakers Committee. The practical effect of the amendment would
be to impose an obligation on the Speakers Committee
to select electoral commissioners, including nominated commissioners,
through open competition, in line with the Office of the Commissioner
for Public Appointments
guidelines. Although
electoral commissioner appointments are not OCPA regulated, I agree
that the process must command public confidenceclearly, we can
all agree on that. The individuals selected should be those who have
demonstrated that they best match the skills, knowledge, practical
experience and personal qualities required for the appointment in
question. Previous
electoral commissioners have always been selected on the basis of open
competition. We note that the Committee on Standards in Public Life has
recommended that commissioners with political backgrounds should,
similarly, be selected by open competition, but in respect of these
particular commissioners, we believe that party leaders are in the best
position to judge those within their parties who would be best placed
to assist the commission to become more politically aware. That is why
we have included the provisions that will enable the leaders of the
qualifying parties to put forward names for consideration as nominated
commissioners. From the names put forward, the Speakers
Committee will select the best candidates on
merit. I
hope that the hon. Lady is not suggesting that the leaders of political
parties are automatically disqualified, by virtue of their office, from
selecting the candidates best suited to fill those
appointments.
Mr.
Wills: I am grateful to the hon. Lady. I also hope she
agrees that, in securing public confidence, which I absolutely agree is
fundamental to the work of the commission, what is important is not so
much how the commissioners are selected, but how they do their job. It
is crucial that they do their job without bias or partisanship and in
accordance with their remit. I have every confidence in the leaders of
all the qualifying political parties in selecting candidates in line
with those criteria. I hope that the hon. Lady, having heard the
assurances and secured agreement on the fundamental principles, feels
able to withdraw the
amendment. David
Howarth (Cambridge) (LD): I, too, welcome you to the Chair
for this phase of our deliberations, Sir Nicholas, and I join
the hon. Lady and the Minister in paying tribute to the work of Sam
Younger, who has been an excellent chair of the Electoral Commission. I
wish him well in his future choice of career, and also welcome Jenny
Watson to this challenging
post. As
the hon. Lady said, the Electoral Commission supports the amendment in
principle. It is worth bearing it in mind that clause 4 regulates the
appointment of all commissioners, not just the political commissioners
dealt with under clause 5, and it would be useful to add the provision
to the law in general.
The Minister
says that there could be a difficulty in how the amendment would apply
to the political commissioners; looking at the detail of the code, it
might not be entirely appropriate to how that particular set of
appointments will work. Nevertheless, when he challenged the hon. Lady
on whether party leaders were suitable people to make such
appointments, the opposite of his point applied. If they are suitable
people, it is not entirely inappropriate that they should in some way
be bound by the
code.
Mr.
Wills: On a point of clarification, it is not the party
leaders who will make the appointments, but the Speakers
Committee. The party leaders will put forward names for selection by
the Speakers
Committee.
David
Howarth: I am grateful for the Ministers
clarification, but as I understand it the code will apply to the entire
process of appointment, which will include nomination by the party
leaders. The question still arises as to the extent to which the code
is appropriate to be applied to that stage of the
processnomination as opposed to final
appointment. If
the Minister accepts the principle that the ideas that lie behind the
codethe perfectly simple ones of transparency and open
competitionhe should be prepared to accept, for a later stage,
a different version of the hon. Ladys amendment. As it stands,
the amendment rather baldly uses the term in accordance
with the code, but if it said in accordance with the principles
of the code, and perhaps subject to any necessary
adjustments for the purposes of clause 5, which is about
political commissioners, that would still get the essential point
across while meeting the hon. Ladys objective, which is that
there should be some statutory mention of the code in the
legislation. I
certainly support the principle of the hon. Ladys amendment,
and I urge the Minister to be more
forthcoming.
Mr.
Wills: As I hope to demonstrate throughout consideration
of the Bill, we are open to suggestions from all parts of the House. I
will certainly reflect on some of the points made by the hon.
Gentleman, and perhaps I might clarify precisely what he is driving at
in conversation after the
sitting. At
this stage, I would be anxious about changing my position on the
amendment for the reasons that I have outlined. Party leaders have an
important role to play for the new type of electoral commissioner, so
we are inclined to keep the position as it is. If the hon. Gentleman
can find a way to resolve all the different issues together, we shall
be happy to listen to suggestions later. However, at the moment, I ask
the Committee to reject the
amendment. 10.45
am
Mrs.
Laing: I have listened carefully to the Ministers
undertakings, as I have to the agreement and support of the hon. Member
for Cambridge, for which I am grateful. We said that the code of
practice ought to be observed if not to the letter, then certainly in
principle. I understand the Ministers argument, but I do not
see why the amendment cannot be accepted.
We are
discussing one of the many areas in which the Bills clarity
could be so improved, but it is one of the minor areas. Over the next
few days, there will be far greater matters in relation to which the
Bills clarity needs to be improved, so I would rather leave the
Committee time to consider the far more difficult issues that we shall
face later in our proceedings. I beg to ask leave to withdraw the
amendment. Amendment,
by leave,
withdrawn. Question
proposed, That the clause stand part of the
Bill. Mr.
Andrew Tyrie (Chichester) (Con): It is a great pleasure to
be a member of the Committee under your chairmanship, Sir
Nicholas. I
wish to say a word about Sam Younger. He has been a tremendous chairman
of the Electoral Commission in difficult circumstances, as the first
man in the job. He has worked tirelessly and extremely hard to do his
best, and to work together with all political parties. I have worked on
an informal group that he created at which he made every effort to
listen to the views of political parties. Other members of that
informal consultative group, one of whom I see in Committee, have
helped the Electoral Commission a good
deal. Sam
Younger deserves a great deal of thanks from the entire political
community for having steadied what could have easily been a difficult
ship. We wish him well in what he does in future, and wish him success,
too. I
want to clarify a point and ask the Minister whether I have understood
clause 4 correctly. Under subsection (2), the Speaker has to
agree that a motion be made, but the rest of the clause is framed in
terms of action by the Speakers Committee. Will the Minister
clarify whether that means in law that the Speaker has a veto over the
decisions of the Speakers Committee in respect of the clause?
Depending on the answer that I receive, I might take this
further.
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©Parliamentary copyright 2008 | Prepared 12 November 2008 |