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Session 2007 - 08 Publications on the internet General Committee Debates Political Parties and Elections Bill |
Political Parties and Elections Bill |
The Committee consisted of the following Members:Chris Shaw, Chris Stanton,
Committee Clerks attended
the Committee Public Bill CommitteeThursday 20 November 2008(Morning)[Sir Nicholas Winterton in the Chair]Political Parties and Elections BillFurther written evidence to be reported to the HousePPE
06 Mr. Peter
Hooper 9.3
am
The
Chairman: I welcome to our penultimate sitting those
members of the Committee who are present and I make a plea to the
Committee that we make as much progress as possible in the time we have
left, so that the expectations of the Programming Sub-Committee can be
metnamely, that all the important parts of the Bill be
considered before we conclude at 4
oclock.
Clause 8Declaration
as to source of
donation Amendment
proposed [18 November]: No. 153, in clause 8, page 5, line 43,
leave out £200 and
insert £5,000, or
£1,000 where subsection (4A) of section 54A
applies,.[Mr.
Wills.] Question
again proposed, That the amendment be
made.
The
Chairman: I remind the Committee that with this we are
discussing the following: Amendment No. 3, in clause 8, page 5, line
43, leave out £200 and insert
£1,000. Amendment
No. 135, in clause 8, page 5, line 43, leave out
£200 and insert
£5,000 donated to a registered party or
£1,000 donated to an accounting unit of a registered
party. Government
amendments Nos. 154 and
155. Amendment
No. 4, in clause 8, page 6, line 3, leave out
£200 and insert
£1,000. Government
amendment No.
156. Amendment
No. 5, in clause 8, page 6, line 14, leave out
£200 and insert
£1,000. Amendment
No. 134, in clause 8, page 6, line 14, leave out
£200 and insert
£5,000 donated to a registered party or
£1,000 donated to an accounting unit of a registered
party. Amendment
No. 179, in clause 8, page 6, line 17, after first the,
insert
reasonable. Amendment
No. 180, in clause 8, page 6, line 21, after
persons, insert
reasonable. Government
amendments Nos. 157 to
159. Amendment
No. 181, in clause 8, page 7, line 17, after or, insert
was
reasonably. Government
amendment No.
160. Amendment
No. 148, in schedule 3, page 34, line 7, leave out
£200 and insert
£1,000. Government
amendment No. 161.
Amendment No.
147, in schedule 3, page 34, line 12, leave out
£200 and insert
£1,000. Amendment
No. 185, in schedule 3, page 34, line 18, leave out from first
the to knowledge and insert
individuals
reasonable. Government
amendment No.
162. Amendment
No. 146, in schedule 3, page 34, line 25, leave out
£200 and insert
£1,000. Amendment
No. 186, in schedule 3, page 34, line 29, after first
the, insert
reasonable. Amendment
No. 200, in schedule 3, page 34, line 34, after
persons, insert
reasonable. Government
amendment No.
163. Amendment
No. 188, in schedule 3, page 35, line 6, at end
insert (8) The Commission
shall prepare and publish guidance notes, which must be attached to any
declaration under paragraph 6A, and which set out in clear English
information necessary to properly complete such a declaration, which
will as a minimum
include (a) examples to
assist in understanding how benefits are
valued; (b) examples to assist
in the completion of the declarations required by paragraph
6A(3); (c) the penalties for
non-compliance with time periods, and for knowingly or recklessly
making a false declaration; (d)
the appropriate details of when time limits for the submission of
declarations commence and
end.. Amendment
No. 189, in schedule 3, page 35, line 37, leave out
appearing and insert who reasonably
appears. Government
amendment No.
164. Amendment
No. 145, in schedule 3, page 36, line 2, leave out
£200 and insert
£1,000. Government
amendment No.
165. Amendment
No. 144, in schedule 3, page 36, line 7, leave out
£200 and insert
£1,000. Amendment
No. 190, in schedule 3, page 36, line 13, leave out from first
the to knowledge and insert
individuals
reasonable. Government
amendment No.
166. Amendment
No. 143, in schedule 3, page 36, line 20, leave out
£200 and insert
£1,000. Amendment
No. 191, in schedule 3, page 36, line 24, after first
the, insert
reasonable. Amendment
No. 192, in schedule 3, page 36, line 29, after
persons, insert
reasonable. Government
amendment No.
167. Amendment
No. 194, in schedule 3, page 36, line 45, at end
insert (8) The Commission
shall prepare and publish guidance notes, which must be attached to any
declaration under paragraph 6A, and which set out in clear English
information necessary to properly complete such a declaration, which
will as a minimum
include (e) examples to
assist in understanding how benefits are
valued; (f) examples to assist
in the completion of the declarations required by paragraph
6A(3); (g) the penalties for
non-compliance with time periods, and for knowingly or recklessly
making a false declaration; (h)
the appropriate details of when time limits for the submission of
declarations commence and
end..
Government
amendment No.
168. Amendment
No. 142, in schedule 3, page 37, line 30, leave out
£200 and insert
£1,000. Government
amendment No.
169. Amendment
No. 141, in schedule 3, page 37, line 35, leave out
£200 and insert
£1,000. Amendment
No. 195, in schedule 3, page 37, line 41, leave out from first
the to knowledge and insert
individuals
reasonable. Government
amendment No.
170. Amendment
No. 140, in schedule 3, page 38, line 6, leave out
£200 and insert
£1,000. Amendment
No. 196, in schedule 3, page 38, line 10, after first
the, insert
reasonable. Amendment
No. 197, in schedule 3, page 38, line 15, after
persons, insert
reasonable. Government
amendment No.
171. Amendment
No. 198, in schedule 3, page 38, line 31, at end
insert (8) The Commission
shall prepare and publish guidance notes, which must be attached to any
declaration under paragraph 6A, and which set out in clear English
information necessary to properly complete such a declaration, which
will as a minimum
include (i) examples to
assist in understanding how benefits are
valued; (j) examples to assist
in the completion of the declarations required by paragraph
6A(3); (k) the penalties for
non-compliance with time periods, and for knowingly or recklessly
making a false declaration; (l)
the appropriate details of when time limits for the submission of
declarations commence and
end.. Clause
8 stand
part. I
point out to hon. Members the fact that this group now includes a
number of amendments that were starred at the previous sitting of the
Committee. I call Jonathan Djanogly, if he has recovered his
breath. Mr.
Jonathan Djanogly (Huntingdon) (Con): Thank you, Sir
Nicholas, and the answer to that is barely. I apologise
for my
lateness. Clause
8 is entirely unacceptable in almost every respect. It is an example of
needless, ill thought through provisions at their worst. Given the
varied issues covered by the clause, we were surprised at the lump
grouping of amendments. Furthermore, given that significant issues go
not only to the context of the clause, but to the sense of the clause
itself, we did not expect the stand part debate to be included in the
grouping. That has not made it easy to discuss the clause in a coherent
fashion.
Mr.
Djanogly: I would never think of questioning the decisions
of the Chair, Sir Nicholas. I was just saying that, from our point of
view, the grouping of amendments has made it difficult to debate the
clause.
Rather than
debate the amendments in the group by issue, it would be more sensible
to take them in order of tabling, which is Labour Back-Bench
amendments, Government amendments, our amendments and then
the stand part debate. I come first to those amendments tabled by the
hon. Member for Leeds, North-East (Mr. Hamilton) and
supported by Labour Back-Bench Members. They have made a valiant effort
to put some order into what we see as the dogs breakfast that
the clause represents. The fact that they were tabled early effectively
said to the Minister, Please can you get your act in order on
the clause? However, they are not good enough and would not go
far enough, and we remain to be convinced of why the clause needs to be
retained. I
shall now rebut the Labour Back-Bench amendments. Clause 8 creates a
new responsibility for donors to political parties to clarify the
source of donations. Donors giving more than £200 will be
required to make a declaration whether another person is providing them
with money or benefits worth more than £200. Amendment No. 3 and
others would increase the donation that triggered the reporting
requirements under the clause to various amounts between £1,000
and £5,000. If we agreed with the clauseI have just said
that we do notwe would agree in principle with the need to
increase the trigger thresholds to avoid unnecessary administrative
burdens being laid at the feet of donors and local party volunteers
alike. By
my estimation, setting the threshold at £200 would result in
about 100,000 declarations being handled each year by the Conservative
party alone. That would be a huge increase in the work load of many
local party officersand a fairly pointless one at that. I doubt
whether the systems or, indeed, the manpower are in place to cope with
such an
increase. Mr.
Andrew Turner (Isle of Wight) (Con): Will my hon. Friend
make it clear that many of those people are not paid, but are
volunteers?
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