Examination of Witnesses (Questions 80-99)
LORD BILIMORIA,
MS SHARON
BAMFORD AND
DR SHAILENDRA
VYAKARNAM
30 OCTOBER 2007
Q80 Judy Mallaber: So where do you
get the other two-thirds of the matched funding then?
Ms Bamford: Sorry, in our first
year that will be made up, based on the last question. Our target
for the first year is a third to match and then for our second
year we are looking at two-thirds and then for our third year.
Lord Bilimoria: If we were to
benchmark against, say, the China-Britain Business Council, their
overall budget is about £2.5 million, of which about £1
million comes from the Government and £1.5 million they raise
themselves through providing services, events and membership.
Q81 Judy Mallaber: Are you concerned
that, by charging membership fees, that is going to make your
membership less representative?
Ms Bamford: Well, it is a structured
and hierarchical membership, so there is a fee for corporates
and we are dividing it, and again, a very similar model to CBBC
and the likes of the US-India Business Council, we have benchmarked
across the whole arena of membership services, so there will be
a tier for corporate members over a certain turnover and number
of employees right down to an SME fee and an individual membership,
so if an individual wants to join, it will be a very different
fee level and service level from that of a major corporate.
Lord Bilimoria: And students,
for example, would pay a very nominal rate.
Q82 Judy Mallaber: So you do not
think it is going to be discouraging, for example, to small businesses?
Ms Bamford: I do not think so.
I think the value add we can give to small businesses is certainly
there.
Q83 Judy Mallaber: How is the new
UKIBC being modelled? Is it going to follow the pattern of the
China-Britain Business Council and will it do things differently
from the IBPN? How do you see your future work?
Lord Bilimoria: I think that the
CBBC is a benchmark, but we are doing things our way as well.
There are learnings from CBBC. They have been operating for almost
50 years, so there is a lot to learn from them and to benchmark
against, but we are very much tailoring it to what the UK-India
relationship requires, so to that extent we will always do our
own thing and will not necessarily copy what the CBBC do.
Ms Bamford: In terms of our general
membership offering, yes, there is a business information service
and good hard evidence-based research, and part of our activity
will be commissioning new research to inform our market, but we
are also introducing a programme of looking at a product pipeline
of new thinking in terms of the India relationship, a new generation
of engagement. One of the problems we suffer from in the UK from
a business perspective with regards to India is that there is
at best a 20th-Century view of the market. From an Indian perspective,
they tend to see the UK as very traditional compared to America
and we have a lot of perceptions that we have to break down, so
we have brought in new programmes and new thinking and a new generation
of thinkers, not just in terms of age, but in terms of sectors,
to actually address that issue. Therefore, whilst we have taken
what is good, and in a very entrepreneurial way we do not want
to throw the baby out with the bathwater, we are looking at all
the very positive things where we have been innovative, very entrepreneurial
and very forward in our thinking in addressing the market to capitalise
on the opportunities.
Q84 Judy Mallaber: Just to understand
how your structure is working, you had two staff before and now
you have got a Chief Executive, before you were perching in someone
else's office and now you have got your own office. How many staff
have you got now and are you planning to get more, and are your
new offices adequate to the task and do you expect to stay there
into the foreseeable future or will it need more expansion plans?
Ms Bamford: In terms of the first
question, we currently have a total of six staff, including myself,
so the two staff that were employed before, it went out to open
tender, open interviews, and they were both recruited. We have
also recruited a policy researcher. We felt that there was not
enough quality information on trade figures, on opportunities
and the linkage with government to inform both parties, so we
have a policy researcher. We have an administrator/office manager
and our new appointment who will be joining the staff is a business
services manager, providing high-quality business advice of mapping
the existing business support and, therefore, where there are
gaps, making sure we can provide that and, where it already exists,
linking and supporting the existing infrastructure. In terms of
our office, we have planned for no more than ten as part of our
core team in terms of growth and that will be based on achieving
targets. The office is a long-term commitment and we intend to
fulfil that long-term commitment with our targets, so it is there
for the long term. As for regional posts, we are actually looking
at going on and in terms of the regions we are prioritising where
the most India activity is and also the regions that are proactively
wanting to engage, so I guess, for want of a better expression,
the low-hanging fruit, so where there is existing provision in
a region and they want to engage with us through co-funding. That
has been a very important model for us because, if they agree
to co-fund, there is a genuine partnership; we are not doing it
to a region and we are not coming in and superimposing our own
views. We are looking at a co-funded post in a number of regions
throughout the UK for an activity that person will be responsible
for, understanding the India activity that exists, supporting
and developing those individuals that are delivering on behalf
of the India agenda in those regions and making sure, most importantly,
that any activity, knowledge or network that comes through London
goes out to a region and does not stop in London, so we make sure
there is a champion for the India activity there, but not just
somebody that is looking to promote India, but is fully informed,
equipped to give business advice and is in regular, daily contact
with our office to pursue the opportunities that London-based
organisations have.
Q85 Judy Mallaber: How many regions
do you anticipate having posts in?
Lord Bilimoria: Perhaps I can
come in here because this is such an important point and one of
the areas where we really believe we are going to be adding a
huge amount of value is the regions because at the moment there
is a varying degree of activity, or lack of it, in the regions
and quite often there is duplication and quite often regions are
carrying out India-related activity and other regions do not know
about it, so there is duplication, there is ignorance and there
is a lack of co-ordination. We feel, where India is concerned,
we can fulfil that role of actually co-ordinating the activity
within the regions, preventing duplication and actually having
our individuals with ultimately, we would like, one in each region
over the next few years, working alongside UKTI and the regions
and then bringing them together where India is concerned.
Q86 Judy Mallaber: I think we are
probably coming back to that, but to finish off on your management
structure, have you implemented your new dual-board structure
yet and is that working, your advisory and operational boards?
Lord Bilimoria: We are the existing
Indo-British Partnership Network Board of just over 20 members
which has been a superb board. I really must emphasise that these
are individuals from a variety of sectors, at a senior level within
their organisations and with a deep knowledge of India, and they
have given up their time and superb commitment, and Shai is one
example, at absolutely no charge whatsoever, just through sheer
commitment and passion for doing business with India, and I would
like to thank them for their support, and they have continued
as the UKIBC Operational Board that meets every two months for
approximately two hours. On top of that, we are now setting up
an Advisory Board and the invitations have gone out to some of
the senior members of industry in this country who themselves
and/or their businesses are connected with India. We have already
had acceptances for this Advisory Board from individuals like
Sir Richard Branson of Virgin, Lord Levene, Chairman of Lloyd's,
and a former Lord Mayor of London, amongst others.
Ms Bamford: Sir Richard Sykes.[1]
Lord Bilimoria: Yes, and Richard
Lambert, the Director General of the CBI. I think we are going
to have about 20 or 25, at least, very senior businesspeople as
members of the Advisory Board. On top of that, we have also started
to set up an audit committee, and perhaps you would like to add
to that, Sharon.
Ms Bamford: Yes, in terms of our
management structure, like any new start-up business, we are having
to put in all of the processes to make sure that we are fully
compliant with a new governance structure, we have an audit committee
that has already met and we are setting up financial processes,
so we have moved, in terms of our management structure, from a
£75,000 network, a well-meaning organisation, to a fully
compliant, professionally run business with governance, with an
audit committee, remuneration committee and we have tender documents
that will be prepared, so we are running as a business.
Q87 Judy Mallaber: So it has been
quite a busy eight weeks?
Ms Bamford: It has been a hugely
busy eight weeks actually.
Q88 Mr Binley: It was so good to
hear the way you feel the organisation has developed over the
past year; that is really encouraging. If I may say so, we should
not leave out the drive and energy that you have given to it yourself
because that has been immensely impressive and, I think, widely
appreciated too. Can I move on now to the changes you see in the
relationship between your organisation with JETCO and UKTI and
generally talk about the vision you have there.
Lord Bilimoria: Well, thank you
very much for your kind words. JETCO, I think, has been a tremendous
initiative. I have actually been involved because I have been
the UK Chairman of the Indo-British Partnership for four years
now or just over four years and I was there at the first ever
JETCO meeting. I think the special aspect of JETCO is that it
is bringing business, the Civil Service and government from both
countries together around the table in a structured way. That
annual meeting, it is actually terrific having all those different
areas, the Civil Service, the private sector and government, around
the table from both countries and discussing the issues in an
open manner, the challenges, obstacles and opportunities, and
then to have the working groups that feed into the main meeting
that have their own meetings and their chairs again from both
countries, and then to have the follow-up that UKTI carry out
with the officials in India during the year. It is a terrific
process and it is, in my view, working very well. One of the outcomes,
for example, is that the UK-India Investment Summit has taken
place and there is another one which is going to be taking place
now very soon, so I think in that sense it is great and it is
also an evolving area. In terms of outcomes, after the Lord Mayor's
visit last year when Sir David Brewer led his delegation, we invited
him back after having briefed him before his visit, we invited
him back to talk to our Board and give us feedback and he came
with different sectors, he gave feedback and we realised that
that one of our strongest areas in Britain is our financial services
area and we did not have a financial services working group in
JETCO, so, as a result of that, we have set up a financial services
working group and the first meeting took place in Mumbai in January,
chaired by the Chancellor, Gordon Brown at the time, who attended
the meeting, so it evolves. Where the legal services are concerned,
about a year ago it seemed very, very far away that the legal
services in India would free up, but, as a result of the work
of the JETCO legal services working group and as a result of the
Indo-British Partnership Network work, now we have made huge progress
with legal services to the extent that the Law Minister, Mr Bhardwaj,
in London at Lancaster House this summer, in front of some of
the leading, leading individuals in the British legal community,
said publicly that legal services in India are going to open up
and "I'm going to try to do it by the end of this year",
and that is marvellous. We have had support from individuals,
like Baroness Ashton, who was tremendous in her old role in trying
to help open up legal services in India, but again JETCO has played
a key role in that.
Q89 Mr Binley: Can I pursue that
a little further by asking you how important you think the UKIBC
thinks the new UKTI strategy has been in enhancing this process
and being a part of this?
Lord Bilimoria: Well, I think
that UKTI strategy from a time four years ago has evolved so much.
At that time, there was the priority on sectors as opposed to
markets, and, from my point of view, having taken over as the
UK Chairman of the Indo-British Partnership, I was very much getting
UKTI to prioritise India as a market and as a country which was
essential and that has taken place, so to that extent UKTI are
now prioritising and I think that has really worked tremendously
well.
Q90 Mr Binley: One assumes you still
think there is work to do though from your answer?
Lord Bilimoria: There is always
work to do—
Q91 Mr Binley: Of course.
Lord Bilimoria:— but I do
think that credit needs to go to UKTI, to Andrew Cahn and to Asif
Ahmad whom we work with. They are working very closely with us
and India is a top priority.
Q92 Mr Binley: I will be quite provocative
now, and I think you have answered this question, but you are
happy about JETCO's future and you are happy about its growth?
You really think it is going to go places?
Lord Bilimoria: Well, I always
believe things can be done much better and there is always scope
for improvement. With JETCO, I would like to bring in my colleagues
because there are suggestions and ways it could be better and
Shai and Sharon could both chip in on this.
Ms Bamford: One outcome of a recent
meeting I had with the High Commission in Delhi was how we can
contribute and how we can improve JETCO and I think it is a common
culture in our organisation to be constantly improving, not just
to get rid of everything, but to look at what exists, how we can
improve and how we can add value to it. In terms of JETCO, one
of the outcomes of that meeting was that we would, as the UKIBC,
take a wider voice of business. There is a great danger in the
JETCO meetings and those that sit on that that it is limited,
by the very nature that you cannot have everyone there, in the
views that are put through to JETCO, so it was agreed with the
UK High Commission in Delhi that we would take a wider voice of
the business community. We would take the regional voice, we would
speak to UK businesses operating in India and we would attend,
as UKIBC, presenting objective opinions from our membership and
from the wider business community to enhance the thinking around
the JETCO process, so that was one outcome. We will take all of
the JETCO meetings and put them on our website so that there is
a consistent level of information. At the moment, it is slightly
inconsistent which groups are doing things, reporting and the
information in the public domain, so there is an inconsistency
there, but we are hoping to address that, and we will also take
up a new web technology to have discussion groups around key issues
and sectoral issues, so, as UKIBC, we are working with UKTI to
add value, to enhance and to take the wider voice of business
to the JETCO process.
Lord Bilimoria: There is one other
important aspect, this co-ordination aspect which we were talking
about with regard to the regions earlier. Even with JETCO, the
IBPN at that time took the initiative to get the JETCO chairs
together and hold a lunch to get them to exchange what progress
they were making in their different sectors. Otherwise, it tends
to be the sort of silo of working in your sectors and here we
fulfil that role of bringing everyone together, apart from at
the annual meeting when everyone gets around the table together,
so that is a useful function that we have been able to fulfil
and we intend to carry on doing that on a regular basis, getting
the chairs to get together.
Dr Vyakarnam: I was a member of
the hi-tech JETCO a while ago and my experience of that encourages
me to make two recommendations: We should always be vigilant in
terms of being up to date and current on the issues that need
tackling, and the financial services JETCO is an example of that,
and maybe we should be looking to see what other JETCOs might
be needed to bring people around the table. That is a committee
function, but the key issue for me is how we compose JETCO on
all sides, who joins and who does not, and I think we need to
think about the composition of those JETCOs and how well-informed
the people are who come on them, ensuring that we play the role
of getting the best people on them.
Q93 Mr Binley: What issues do India
raise to JETCO because it is very important to see the whole of
the business rather than just outside it?
Lord Bilimoria: It varies from
sector to sector to sector.
Dr Vyakarnam: I think that the
knowledge sector and the higher education sector would be ones
where it is absolutely essential for future development, certainly
from India's perspective, in connecting to the knowledge base
and the UK higher education institutions. Issues of intellectual
property, transparency etc. On the Indian side, it is also about
whether or not the better (research) institutions can collaborate
more effectively with each other, and in the hi-tech area. There
is almost an automatic synergy with the higher education institutions.
Q94 Chairman: Just on education,
I am going to Cambridge for a big dinner on 5 December ahead of
the Vice Chancellor's first ever visit to India. Some of our education
institutions have been quite slow to develop the relationship
they ought to have done, I think, with India. Do you share that
concern and do you feel that is being put right?
Dr Vyakarnam: It has certainly
been put right over the last few years. If you look at the number
of students from India, that is an indicator and the growth rate
is quite astronomic really, the number of Indian students coming
to do postgraduate degrees and so on. The area where I think institutions
like Cambridge and others, the research-rich institutions, still
need to do a lot of work is to be able to attract the better-quality
Indian students on to their doctoral programmes and on to postdoctoral
fellowships and others. For instance, if we want to do something
about the biotech and pharmaceutical sector, UK universities could
be more open to getting clinical researchers from India, for instance,
in HIV Aids, tuberculosis and diabetes. India has a community
of medics and a separate community of researchers but they do
not engage with each other, so the UK can make a big difference
through its experience of combining medicine with research.
Q95 Chairman: Will UKIBC be playing
a part in this process?
Dr Vyakarnam: Well, I am on the
Board of UKIBC and you cannot stop me banging the drum!
Lord Bilimoria: I would like,
if I may, Chairman, to come in because it is such an important
point. The numbers have increased five-fold over the last five
years and there are now 25,000 Indian students over here and increasing.
However, the reality is that the United States is still by far
the number one destination for Indian students and at number two
the Australians have overtaken the United Kingdom. I think we
have got to continue to make it far more attractive for Indian
students to come here and study, and we have been lobbying away
on one initiative where there is a discrepancy in Scotland—
Q96 Chairman: Yes!
Lord Bilimoria: I asked a question
in the House of Lords about this in June, that Scottish students,
after they graduate, can work for two years to gain experience,
to contribute to the economy, to earn some money to help pay for
their education and it is very valuable to forge life-long links,
whereas here in England and Wales it has only just been allowed
for one year. We have the same Home Office in the United Kingdom,
so why can it not be two years over here as well? We are lobbying
away for this and I think that will be a big help.
Chairman: I do not want to help Lord
Jones too much, but I am sure that is one of the questions we
will put to him when he comes before us in a month or so's time.
Q97 Mrs Curtis-Thomas: I was very
fortunate to visit the Mumbai Stock Exchange and I was approached
by the Chief Executive Officer there at the time who said, "We
would be very, very interested in working with the London School
of Economics to establish a course on emerging markets and emerging
Stock Exchange markets in Asia". Now, given the rapid growth
of the Stock Exchange in Mumbai, it seemed to me to be a marvellous
suggestion and one that would be mutually beneficial to both parties.
The disappointment I had when I came back was that there was no
positive response from the LSE at all to this suggestion and in
fact no willingness in fact to visit or even to begin to explore
this possibility. I would like to ask whether or not that is your
experience. I see you shaking your head and I am so pleased to
be contradicted because I just thought it was a great chance really
to move forward on an educational platform and on an investment
platform at the same time.
Lord Bilimoria: All I can say
is that I am very surprised to hear that because Howard Davies
actually sits on the Asia Task Force which I sit on, the LSE have
an annual event in India, an annual Indian event with their alumni,
with faculty going out, Howard Davies himself went out, the President
of India attended the last one, and it is a very, very popular
institution where Indian students are concerned. It is one of
the top-ranking ones, along with Oxford and Cambridge, and very,
very popular, so I am surprised, and also for the last Lord Mayor,
on his visit to India, education was a top priority, particularly
education to do with financial services and the City, so I will
follow up on that, if I may, because I find that very surprising
and it is a great opportunity, I agree with you.
Q98 Mr Weir: I would just like to
follow up what you were saying about the regional bodies. We understand
from your submission here that you have kind of got a mapping
process about what the regional bodies are doing with India. I
just wondered how far that has gone and whether you have reached
any initial views on whether there should be a streamlining process,
and how it fits in with what you were saying earlier about yourself
having regional persons with the regional development agencies
in place, so I wondered if you could tell us some more about that.
Ms Bamford: The mapping study
took place through the summer and what we did was look at what
already exists. The results were that it was inconsistent. Well,
some areas are very enthusiastic and have a large number of staff,
and I would just take London, for example, where there is a considerable
amount of resource and interest in the India agenda. What we also
found was that these organisations were not necessarily linking
together, they were not sharing knowledge and that the individuals
who are delivering the India services would welcome our support
in terms of their own personal development, up-to-date information
and the opportunities that are there for India that they can pass
on, so the regional study, in essence, gave us the view that it
is inconsistent at best and that there was a willingness to engage.
As for the regions, we have pushed on an open door, and certainly
we went to Yorkshire Forward who, based on the very successful
IFA awards earlier this year, have said, "Yes, we would like
to capitalise on that opportunity with India". UKTI provide
India champions and their trade promoters in the regions, but
they are not necessarily India specialists and where our competitive
advantage is is to understand what is there, to support that knowledge,
not to duplicate or replicate, and also to develop the knowledge
base that is in each region, to draw that together in a matrix
of capabilities in terms of sectors and exporting, understand
what exists that UKTI provides and provide the leadership. We
have not had any issues in terms of going to the regions of preciousness,
competitiveness, "We are duplicating, we are in a crowded
market", so it has been warmly welcomed by the regions.
Q99 Mr Weir: That is highly interesting
because the view has been expressed to us that the number of RDAs
operating in India are causing confusion in India because the
UK is a relatively small country, you have got Scottish Trade
International, the English RDAs and there are many English RDAs
working there. Have you found that to be a problem? You seem to
be looking at it from a different angle.
Ms Bamford: The area we have explored
and researched has been the UK side, and that was our research
in the summer, what is happening in the UK, looking at India,
and there has been that openness and willingness. We are exploring
putting two members of staff and part of our plan is to have a
member of staff in Delhi from a government perspective and in
Mumbai where we see two significant first steps into India. The
opportunity there is for again leadership, of actually having
that one UK voice and supporting all of the regions there. Again,
we have worked with UKTI, we have taken a view—
1 Footnote by Witness: Since the Committee
hearing there has been further acceptances of Sir William Casstell,
Wellcome Trust; Gerry Murphy, Kingfisher and Dalip Pathak, Warburg
Pincus. Back
|
