Examination of Witnesses (Questions 240-242)
RT HON
HARRIET HARMAN,
QC, MP, MS JANICE
SHERSBY AND
MS ANN-MARIE
FIELD
29 OCTOBER 2007
Q240 Roger Berry: Thank you very much.
Ms Harman: I sound like one of
those policy documents, but you get the point anyway!
Roger Berry: Yes.
Q241 Miss Kirkbride: The thing which
has come out most from our inquiry is that the biggest issue in
the gender pay gap is access to quality part-time work and if
we can crack that one, we can really make a difference. I wonder
whether you have alighted on any ideas or proposals which could
bring that forward in a constructive way.
Ms Harman: That is an issue for
the public sector as an employer. Bear in mind the public sector
is a very big employer and, therefore, has within its own hands
a big question of availability of jobs at all levels being part-time
but, also, availability of flexibility, so there is not part-time
versus full-time but there is ability for people to choose the
hours which suit their family responsibilities but enables them
to carry out their work, unless the employer could show that it
really is not possible. There is scope within the public sector
as an employer, but there is also the question of the legislation.
As you will know, we have introduced the right to request flexible
work, and I think there is a big recognition that perhaps more
could be done by employers to allow employees to work flexibly
in a way that does not disadvantage the employer or the work which
is done in the enterprise, but does help women and men balance
their family responsibilities, not just for children but also
increasingly for older relatives. I think this is going to be
a very, very important agenda for the future. People have woken
up to the issue that people at work are somebody's parents, somebody's
mother or somebody's father, but everybody needs to wake up to
the fact that people at work are also somebody's son or daughter
and they are getting older and they are not living in residential
care or not living in sheltered accommodation or not living with
their family, they are living on their own and, nonetheless, they
need family support. That is something I would like to signal
which we feel we need to look further at, both in terms of the
rights of employees to be able to take the initiative to create
that balance for themselves but also in terms of the support services
that are available in the community which back people up at work.
For people with children, it is their right to work flexibly and
it is the after-school clubs and holiday play schemes and childcare.
We need the same movement on the agenda, not just in relation
to older children but also older relatives and people with disabilities.
Q242 Chairman: Thank you very much
and thank you for coming. I hope we have not put back your progress
from getting back to good health. It has been such a quick canter
through the issues and we should have spent three times as long
on every single one of them and many more, but thank you very
much. As your parting shot, given that the equal pay gap is so
intractable, is it a hopeless cause or are you optimistic that
we are going to crack it?
Ms Harman: No, I do not think
it is at all intractable. It is certainly not that the pay gap
is on tablets of stone and there is nothing we can do about it,
quite the opposite. It is just that it comes at a difficult time
for me to be able to say that this is what the Government's position
is because the Government's position is as what you knew it was
hitherto until such time as it is changed. I certainly do think,
is it one of those things where we just have to wring our hands
and say, "We can't do anything more about it and let's engage
in lots of processes, but be agnostic as to whether or not the
processes are working", well, the answer to that is absolutely
not. We have got to focus on the outcome and I am sure we can.
Chairman: Thank you very much, indeed,
and thank you for coming.
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