Examination of Witnesses (Questions 260-279)
BERR AND UKTI
28 APRIL 2008
Q260 Chairman: I would add to that
the West Midlands has the strength in the automotive sector, which
is one of the emerging strongest growing sectors in Turkey, of
course, as well.
Lord Jones of Birmingham: That
is for sure.
Q261 Chairman: This Committee always
looks at trading with different countries and always will lament
the lack of British engagement and we always want it to be a higher
priority in businesses' mind and government's mind and not everywhere
can be a priority, but what you have just said is that Turkey
should be one of the higher priorities in British businesses'
minds because, as you put it, there is an open goal there because
there is a lot of political goodwill towards this country and
Turkey because of the position taken towards their membership.
Is it not a bit odd to have cut the TBBC funding so heavily?
Lord Jones of Birmingham: Business
funds the TBBC.
Q262 Chairman: You were making a
higher contribution.
Lord Jones of Birmingham: I am
sorry, you mean cut our funding to the TBBC?
Q263 Chairman: Yes.
Lord Jones of Birmingham: You
say it is odd, Andy Cahn and I have priorities. We have to make
judgments, we have to be judged on those judgments and we made
a decision. You say, "Isn't it a bit odd", we have increased
the salary bill which looks after Turkey by 25%, I mean, give
us a break.
Q264 Chairman: We welcome what you
are doing with UKTI. We are a little bit confused with what you
said about the TBBC funding because you made a claim to a figure
earlier on which is different from ours. Could we have a note
of government funding for TBBC over the last five years, just
to clarify that.
Lord Jones of Birmingham: I have
been corrected for the record, which I think is right, we did
not give £240,000 over the last two years to the TBBC. I
said we did, we did not, we spent it on the Turkey trade effort
in the round.
Q265 Chairman: That is what I thought.
Lord Jones of Birmingham: I would
like to make that correction.
Q266 Chairman: That is helpful. Last
year's UKTI strategy for Turkey, which has just run out says,
"We shall aim to strengthen institutional weaknesses in key
networks, eg the TBBC". I would love a copy of the 2008/09
UKTI which must now be available. If we could have a copy of that,
it would be really helpful.
Lord Jones of Birmingham: Sure,
I will get you that. By the way, Chairman, when you or somebody
said it is a little odd that our trade effort there is less than
what Germany do and yet we are more in favour of them joining
the European Union, one of the things we must remember is there
is an enormous historical link with Germany—historical in
terms of 30 years not 300 years—because of all the guest
workers who came in for the German automotive manufacturing miracle
of the 1960s through to the 1990s. There are a lot of second generation
Turks who have a familiarity relationship with Germany which they
do not possess with Britain.
Q267 Chairman: I understand that.
Inter-governmental forum, can you explain to us a little more
what this is all about? When will it be launched? Is it going
to be for the first time when you go to Turkey in September?
Lord Jones of Birmingham: Yes
and yes.
Q268 Chairman: Thank you very much.
Describe it a little.
Lord Jones of Birmingham: We have
kick-started it again. It was announced last year and then it
did not get off the ground, mainly due to inactivity at the Turkish
end but it did not. I wrote to the Foreign Minister of Turkey
earlier in the year and Andrew Cahn went to Turkey in February
and we have had a response and it is going to be formally launched
at the first meeting when I go in September.
Q269 Chairman: Obviously your commitment
to it is considerable.
Lord Jones of Birmingham: Yes.
Q270 Chairman: You think the Turkish
commitment is now there as well?
Lord Jones of Birmingham: I do,
and if you had asked me that six months ago, it is not something
I could have said yes to.
Q271 Chairman: There are quite a
lot of specific issues affecting British companies in Turkey,
is that not so?
Lord Jones of Birmingham: I want
to do one thing well with that initiative in September, get it
launched properly, get one or two things that we agree both sides
have got to do in, say, 12 months, what gets measured gets done,
so get a couple of things done and done well rather than say,
"Let's go and do 20 things", and find we have done nothing.
One or two are those trade obstacles to which you refer. We have
still got this big issue with spirits. There was a little bit
of progress. There was the double-header of the two consents they
needed, that has now come down to one, great stuff, and the other
one they have just got to say, "We've done this", so
they do not need to ask for consent, they can just report. There
is still one that is needed, and are we any further in getting
them to progress that and not have all the delays, no, we are
not. That is big for Britain, remember, because we have some big
drinks companies, especially up in Scotland.
Q272 Chairman: Scotch whisky is always
the big issue in trading relations in all this. The IGF sounds
remarkably like a sort of mini JETCO to me, like we have with
India, Brazil and China. Ministers have not got completely free
diaries. There is a limit to the number of high level engagements
they can have. What is the difference between an IGF and a JETCO?
Is there enough ministerial time to make it work?
Lord Jones of Birmingham: JETCOs
have been going quite a while now, so this is not hope, this is
reality. You and I might look at it, Chairman, as at ministerial
level and the big meeting that happens every year or every six
months, there is an awful lot of JETCO which goes on in all different
strands of relationships between two countries on an economic
basis, that will not happen with the inter-governmental one with
Turkey. This is going to be just one moving forward at one level.
I am not saying in three or four years' time it will not spread
its tentacles down into other areas of economic activity. It is
not a mini JETCO because it has the same origins at the top, but
what JETCO then does is it spreads its tentacles throughout.
Chairman: We shall adjourn for the division.
The Committee suspended from 3.42pm to
4.02pm for a division in the House of Lords
Q273 Mr Hoyle: Obviously, as you have
informed us, it is 15 years since we have had a trade minister
out in Turkey, so it is good news you are going and you want to
make a big impact. You mentioned defence and I think the defence
budget is about £40 billion a year and you are absolutely
right, we have not even touched the surface there. I wondered,
you mentioned about the American F-16, there is not that much
on the F-16 for us but there is a lot more on Typhoon or Hawk.
Does that mean you might land in a Typhoon or Hawk as a good way
to start your tour!
Lord Jones of Birmingham: If there
was an offer to land in a Typhoon in Turkey in September I would
jump at the chance or a Hawk Trainer for that matter. The plane
that the Typhoon should go up against is the F-35, not the F-16.
Q274 Mr Hoyle: But they are building
F-16 under the licence at the moment.
Lord Jones of Birmingham: Also,
you find that America will sell the F-16 as an interim stop-gap
before the 35 comes on line. The Typhoon is going up against the
hope of a 35, but there is more British kit on a 35 than a 16,
that is for sure.
Q275 Mr Hoyle: We have still got
to hope that you might be landing in a Typhoon or Hawk?
Lord Jones of Birmingham: Put
it this way, if you would like to use your influence and I can
use mine and I got on the back seat of a Typhoon to land in September,
count me in!
Q276 Mr Hoyle: That is excellent
news. The only thing I might say is you may have to get on to
BAE about reopening an office because I think that is the other
downside. Here we have a huge budget being spent and yet absolutely
no office being occupied by BAE out there, so maybe that is something
you ought to take out as part of your trade delegation.
Lord Jones of Birmingham: Tomorrow
morning I will get on that case because I did not know that. I
will try and sort that out.
Q277 Mr Hoyle: That is good.
Lord Jones of Birmingham: We should
say that will not just be about aircraft.
Q278 Mr Hoyle: No, it is about all
the things that BAE represent.
Lord Jones of Birmingham: That
will be about ships BAE do as well.
Q279 Mr Hoyle: Absolutely, maybe
Thales as well, so there are huge opportunities and I know you
will be flying the flag, may it continue. Since your Department
submitted their evidence, have you seen any progress in addressing
any of the plethoras of barriers to trade investment in Turkey?
Which issue will you personally raise as the one that you perceive
as the continuing barrier?
Lord Jones of Birmingham: The
factual answer to you is we have seen a little bit of progress
in the spirits one that I mentioned just now, but I am scratching
at the surface.
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