Examination of Witnesses (Questions 560
- 564)
THURSDAY 19 APRIL 2007
YVETTE COOPER
MP, MS TERRIE
ALAFAT AND
MR PETER
RUBACK
Q560 Emily Thornberry:
Do you think that overcrowding is set to continue to increase?
Is the Department going to set targets for trying to keep the
lid on overcrowding and are you going to redefine it?
Yvette Cooper: Overcrowding outside
London has not changed very much; overcrowding in London has increased.
I do think that the current statutory standard is hopelessly out
of date. We have already consulted on some options around changing
it. What does not help is simply changing the definition. What
we need to be able to do is to link the definition with allocation
policies or approaches to do something about it with the need
to build more family housing. What we do not want to do is just
deal with the definition in isolation because that would create
additional and more confusing pressure for local authorities who
need to do it as part of a wider strategy to address the issue.
Q561 Chair: Minister,
can I just pick you up on the regional aspect because you appeared
to be suggesting that you thought overcrowding was more of a problem
in London than elsewhere, but all of us will know from our own
constituencies the angst caused by overcrowding in the social
sector in particular and the way in which the allocations policy
often does not seem to deal with that issue at all. I think it
goes back to a question that Clive was asking. What advice is
the Department going to be giving on allocations policy to try
and deal with overcrowding given the effect that it has on people's
health, for example?
Yvette Cooper: What we have been
looking at, and we have not come to final conclusions on this,
is what options there might be for changing the overcrowding standard
but doing so in a way that would need to be taken into account
in local authority allocations and how you might be able to do
that over time. In other words, local authorities would have to
take greater account of overcrowding than they currently do. If
they do that, I was trying to use the example before of a way
in which you might be able to deal with it by an intelligent policy
that looks at moving more people through the stock and you could
end up helping the same number of families and also tackling overcrowding
at the same time, but in other cases there will be trade-offs,
so it is important that you look at this as part of the strategy
around temporary accommodation and homelessness and do not just
look at overcrowding in isolation. We are looking at changing
guidance for local authorities and better guidance for local authorities
to be able to address this.
Q562 Chair: One
of the issues that was raised with us, and a number of us will
recognise it anyway, is that some councils use the overcrowding
rule so rigidly that they will not move a family which is severely
overcrowded into a property in which it is moderately overcrowded:
they wait until they can give them a property where they are not
overcrowded. Is your review covering those issues as well?
Yvette Cooper: Yes. Terrie, I
do not know if you want to add something around overcrowding?
Ms Alafat: Just a point of clarification.
The reasonable preference category, if you set out a national
basis for local allocation policies, does include overcrowding
but one of the issues is the outdated standard which the Minister
has already mentioned. One of the things we have done quite recently
is we have given some funding to five London boroughs as it happens,
because there is a lot of push that is coming from London boroughs—
Mr Olner: Your door is too close to them!
Q563 Emily Thornberry:
Too overcrowded, Bill!
Ms Alafat: The interesting thing
about the funding we have given them is what they are trying to
do is look at the approach they have taken to homelessness and
extend it to overcrowding because for some of these overcrowded
households there are things you can do now to alleviate their
circumstances even if they are waiting for a larger property.
We were quite taken by that approach because that was something
John Hills also suggested, that the approach on homelessness seems
to be working and should we not be looking at other groups. It
is an interesting test case and it is not very large yet but I
think it will feed into what the Minister has been saying about
taking a more strategic approach to this issue.
Q564 Chair: Can
I thank you very much, Minister. As you see, we regard housing
as an incredibly important subject, hence the time we have given
to it today and we are grateful to you for giving your time to
it today. Thank you.
Yvette Cooper: Thank you very
much.
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