Examination of Witnesses (Questions 164-179)
PROFESSOR PETER
ROBERTS OBE, DR
GILL TAYLOR
AND MR
KEVIN MURRAY
19 MAY 2008
Q164 Chair: Can I welcome you to this
afternoon's session. I notice there are three witnesses, we thought
there would only be two.
Professor Roberts: Yes.
Q165 Chair: Can I encourage you,
obviously, not to repeat what other witnesses have said. I imagine
you have been keeping up-to-date with the evidence that has been
given thus far in the inquiry, in which case you will know that
quite a few of our witnesses have been distinctly sceptical about
what the Academy for Sustainable Communities has been doing and
where the £12 million has gone. Could you perhaps start off
by briefly commenting on those criticisms and explaining where
the money has gone, and what difference it has made.
Professor Roberts: Thank you.
We did notify David Weir about the additional witness because
we thought it might be helpful if there were questions about continuity
between the Egan Review and the current operation of the Academy
if we brought along one of our Board Members, Kevin Murray, who
was an adviser to Egan and is also a current Board Member. We
just thought there might be a question of where do you start and
where are you now, so that is why we have the additional witness,
Chair. Can I just say we are very grateful for the opportunity
to come and talk to you. The essence of your question is really
to say to us, well what have we achieved since we were set up.
Can I start off by making the point that the Academy started in
full operation in May 2006, so we have now been in operation for
two years, and one of the things the Academy was very, very clearly
directed towards was, as well as dealing with some of the short-term
issues, to make sure that we dealt with the long-term capacity
problems. I think our intention is to make sure you do not need
to have a similar inquiry to this one in 2018, in other words
that we have attended to long-term as well as the short-term problems.
The work over the past two years, of course, has not solely been
with planners. Can I emphasise the point that Egan identified
102 areas of activity which make up the sustainable communities
activity system as a whole, so planners only represent a very
small part of the total constituency that we are addressing ourselves
to. Secondly, can I make the point that the Academy was never
designed and never tasked to be a direct delivery body for all
the things that we were asked to deal with. We were principally
created as the national strategic agency to help better to understand
the problems that were faced in relation to skills and knowledge
across all the sustainable communities professions and other groups,
such as local authority elected members and people working in
the voluntary sector. We were tasked as the national strategic
body with the identification of things that needed to be done,
with establishing meaningful and productive partnerships with
all the other agencies and organisations involved in delivery
of professionals and other people working on sustainable communities,
and also we were tasked with dealing with knowledge and understanding
in the sector. We were tasked with finding out more about where
the gaps are. In the last two years what we have done is principally
to develop particular areas of activity to allow us better to
understand the marketplace that we are working in, to create those
strategic partnerships and start delivering programme resources,
principally for other people to physically deliver to individuals.
Q166 Mr Olner: What does that all
mean you have done though?
Professor Roberts: I have brought
with me a small selection of the material that we have actually
developed, the products that we have developed, for people working
in planning and planning related activities. For example, we have
developed learning programme materials which have been accessed
by some 24,000 professionals. We gave you the figure for 2006-07
because we did not have the audited figure for 2007-08. In our
submission we said 10,000 for 2006-07, we have now got the audited
figures for both the years we have been operating and we have
now delivered learning to 24,000 professionals.
Q167 Chair: Can I just clarify, you
said at the beginning that you were concentrating on long-term
capacity problems, does that mean that you are not or were not
intending to do anything to prevent the predicted labour shortage
in planning that is going to occur by 2012? Is that long-term
or medium term?
Professor Roberts: I said we were
established chiefly to deliver a long-term solution, solutions
which would last, which were not just quick fixes. To that extent,
that is what I am going to try and illustrate now for you, Chair,
the way in which we have been able to do that. Yes, we did have
to attend to short-term issues and, yes, that is why we have engaged
with 24,000 professionals over the two year period.
Q168 John Cummings: What do you mean
by engage?
Professor Roberts: We have made
available learning materials and they have accessed those learning
materials.
Q169 John Cummings: Do you know whether
they have actually read them?
Professor Roberts: We do know
they have read them.
Q170 John Cummings: Is there a follow-up?
Are you following it up?
Professor Roberts: We asked people
have they found value in the materials which we present to them
and they respond. I think we have got—I cannot remember
the exact figure—about 90-odd per cent of people who engage
with us say they have found our material valuable.
Q171 John Cummings: I find that remarkable
because the evidence that this Committee has received, Chair,
does not indicate that at all.
Professor Roberts: Right. Well,
I can only tell you what we have had in terms of response.
Q172 John Cummings: Could you give
an indication of any national associations that have responded
in a positive manner?
Professor Roberts: National associations?
Q173 John Cummings: Yes.
Professor Roberts: Every year
we have done evaluations of our programme and that has been done
independently by an appointed contractor and they have engaged
with the various stakeholders that we have dealt with and, again,
the evaluations have been broadly positive.
Q174 Emily Thornberry: The British
Property Federation, for example, told us that they thought that
the ASC was wishy-washy; representatives of South East England
Development Association said that they had had little contact
with it.
Professor Roberts: I find it surprising
in relation to the South East Centre of Excellence because we
have co-funded some of their programmes and they have taken our
resources to deliver things like the learning laboratories, so
I find it incomprehensible that should be the case. In the case
of the British Property Federation, we have worked with some of
the member companies of the British Property Federation and they
have collaborated in our programmes, they have sponsored our activities,
they have attended our events. Maybe from the British Property
Federation perspective, we are not delivering to them as an association
but we have been working with the member companies.
Q175 John Cummings: It just seems
so contrary to what this Committee has taken in evidence over
two particular sessions. We are talking about some very eminent
national associations. Having said that, why in three years, and
given the urgency of the shortages of personnel and skills, have
you influenced only 1.3% of your target audience?
Professor Roberts: I think I corrected
that figure. The figure that we gave you in our written evidence
was the figure for the first of our full years of operation.
Q176 John Cummings: What percentage
would it be? If 1.3% is not correct, what is the correct figure?
Professor Roberts: It is in excess
of 3%.
Q177 John Cummings: How much?
Professor Roberts: How many? 24,000.
Q178 John Cummings: Your targeted
audience.
Professor Roberts: 24,000.
Q179 John Cummings: What is that
in percentage terms?
Professor Roberts: The figure
that we gave you was the figure for one year only. We have now
completed two years of our programme, not just the first year,
and the figure you have of 1.3% refers only to the first full
year of operation. Now what we have is a figure which has risen
in the second year from the figure which was in the first year
so we have now increased the number of people who have gone through
our programme from that figure, it has more than doubled.
| 
