Select Committee on Culture, Media and Sport Minutes of Evidence


Examination of Witnesses (Questions 400 - 419)

TUESDAY 22 JANUARY 2008

MR GERRY SUTCLIFFE MP AND MR JONATHAN STEPHENS

  Q400  Chairman: One of the stories which the Secretary of State told, he recounted how Seb Coe and Daley Thompson had come back from their Olympic success to find a queue 50 metres long of young people wishing to join sports clubs, but being turned away because there was not the capacity, and he suggested that that was a tragedy which he wanted to make sure did not happen next time. How are you going to achieve that because you are not suggesting that the Department of Health is going to be supporting individual sports clubs?

  Mr Sutcliffe: I think what we want to achieve, and we are doing it before the 2012 Olympics, we are doing it through the Decade of Sport, is to use sport to inspire people, to use sport to work in partnership with local government, with the regional sports bodies and with the governing bodies to look at what needs to happen in terms of participation rates. We talked earlier about the investment in school sport and how we are going to achieve that through the increased offer from two to five. In community sport, and I see it in my own constituency and I am sure colleagues do in theirs as well, local people volunteer, get involved and try and run these sports clubs without a great deal of support in the early stages. What I hope to achieve is that that level of support is there so that there are people to go to that can give advice about the investment that is needed in facilities, what support can be given in terms of training facilities and what support can be given in pitches. In Bradford, I have to say, some of the football pitches are the same now as when I played on them 35/40 years ago because the investment has not taken place, so we need to work with local authorities and we need to work with the governing bodies about how we will turn all that around. I talked earlier about world-class facilities and I genuinely believe that, that community sport is entitled to world-class facilities and it is important that we put the investment in at the elite level to get the return on medals that we hope we will see in Beijing and in 2012, but we want to offer up those low-cost facilities as well, so it is about raising capacity, about encouraging people to be involved, and about giving direction to people in knowing where to go in terms of advice and support for the many clubs and many volunteers that are out there.

  Q401  Chairman: You have, to some extent, increased the grant-in-aid to Sport England, but not sufficiently to make up for the amount of money it is going to lose from the Lottery, but clearly, if you take those things together, you are then talking about hoping to attract money from other government departments. Is it your hope that actually the total amount of money going into sport will not decrease, despite the Olympic drain?

  Mr Sutcliffe: I hope that that is the case. Another sector we can look at for investment is the private sector with all that I said earlier about trying to get people to be involved. We were very clear at the outset of the Olympics that money would come from the Lottery and the Secretary of State and the Minister for the Olympics have been very clear about setting out that case, and again I am pleased to see that that was supported certainly by the Commons last week and hopefully by the Lords in the coming weeks so that people understand fully where we are, but yes, we will be looking at all opportunities to increase the level of income that comes into sport.

  Q402  Chairman: And, in order to achieve that vision of ensuring that community sports clubs are there to accommodate the rush of people who are going to be inspired to participate, that is going to require at least that the present level of funding is maintained, if not increased. Would you not agree?

  Mr Sutcliffe: Yes, but we can work wiser, we can be more efficient in the way we do things and we can look at what support other departments of government, particularly the Treasury, can give to sport, and again we will push all those opportunities.

  Q403  Chairman: On Sport England itself, when do you want to see a Chairman in place?

  Mr Sutcliffe: As quickly as possible. As has been said, the process has already started and we will be looking or Sport England will be looking at the candidates and hopefully we will get to a very early appointment.

  Q404  Chairman: Were you disappointed by the remarks of the outgoing Chairman?

  Mr Sutcliffe: Well, first of all, I would like to congratulate Derek Mapp on the work that he did when he was Chair of Sport England. He clearly disagreed with the direction of travel that we wanted to go in. I think he was wrong and the proof of the pudding will be in the eating. I think that he could have stayed and would have enjoyed working with us, but clearly that was not to be.

  Q405  Chairman: But presumably he agreed the direction of travel with the previous Secretary of State?

  Mr Sutcliffe: Well, the direction of travel was to increase participation by two million by 2012, and that has not changed.

  Q406  Chairman: But, nonetheless, his vision and how you went about increasing participation must have been something that he then agreed with the previous Secretary of State and, if not, it was not his fault, but the Secretary of State has changed and we now have a completely different vision.

  Mr Sutcliffe: No, I think that the participation targets have remained the same. I think he had not the same faith perhaps in our ability to negotiate with our colleagues in other departments, and I am happy to say already in the meetings that I have been involved with that I am heartened by the discussions that we are having, so again the proof of the pudding will be in the eating.

  Q407  Chairman: This is the Andy Burnham-chaired committee?

  Mr Sutcliffe: It is a mixture actually. It is the Health and Wellbeing Committee and I also sit on the Obesity Committee dealing with the Foresight Study and, again with Kevin Brennan and now Dawn Primarolo from education and health, so I think there are a number of avenues where resources and support will come in addition to all the things we have talked about today which will make sport activity a benefit.

  Chairman: Well, I am delighted to hear that you are finding enthusiasm in the Treasury to spend more money; it will be a novelty if it is the case!

  Q408  Philip Davies: One of the great benefits of the Olympics, we are told, is the increased participation in sport, even though there seems to be no evidence from any other host city anywhere previously that they have seen this increase in participation in sport, so do you think the Government are perhaps placing too much faith in it providing a boost to participation in sport?

  Mr Sutcliffe: No, I think it is the right thing to do and, you are right, it is about the legacy that has happened in other cities, and there will be arguments, I am sure, from those countries about the benefits that they had. Certainly we are looking at what is going on in Vancouver, for instance, on the 2010 Winter Olympics and how they are looking at participation and how they are setting about increasing it. I am very confident, I think it is the right thing to do and certainly I think now is the right time to be doing it rather than leaving it, as you said earlier, to the two or three weeks of the Olympics. We need to be putting the infrastructure in place now and we need to be trying to inspire now to make sure that we do get people participating.

  Q409  Philip Davies: Most people, and hopefully a lot of people in this country, will be able to see the Olympics in 2012 when it happens and, even if that happens, the vast majority of people in this country in 2012 will access the Olympics by watching it on TV, so why should anybody be more inspired to get involved in sport by watching a British athlete win at the Olympic Games in 2012 in Britain than they would be by watching a British athlete win an Olympic Gold Medal in Beijing in 2008? If they are both watched on TV, why should one inspire somebody to take part in sport more than the other?

  Mr Sutcliffe: I think it is more than that. The Olympic Games, whilst we focus on sport, is more than just sport. It is about the whole nation coming together and being part of the Olympic events in London, and that is why there is the variety of bodies, there is the Nations and Regions Committee of LOCOG and in the DCMS I chair the Legacy Board, looking at all activities across government that can help people benefit from the Olympics in 2012, but I think that was very much part of the reasoning for bidding for 2012, to look at a legacy of inspiration of all things, whether that is cultural or economic, and we want to make sure that people are boosted by the Olympics taking place in 2012, so I believe that people will get more than just the satisfaction of watching many more British Olympians getting medals on TV. It will be more than just watching it on TV, it will be the actual fact of it taking place here in the UK.

  Q410  Philip Davies: If we tried to use our Olympic heroes as role models to get people to participate, and the Chairman mentioned earlier this 50-metre queue of people who were waiting for Daley Thompson and Seb Coe, but they did not win their Gold Medals in Britain, they won them in other parts of the world, so should the Government not really be making more of an effort to use the Olympic Games in Beijing, for example, as a stepping stone for getting people to participate in sport rather than waiting for this panacea of 2012?

  Mr Sutcliffe: That is a fair point and we are doing. In UK Sport, the £600 million has been invested in elite sportsmen and women, meaning that for Beijing we will hopefully have an improved performance on what we had in the previous Olympic Games in terms of the medal count and the development of our major athletes, so you will start to see hopefully from Beijing improvements which will inspire people to perform in 2012 as well.

  Q411  Adam Price: On the issue of elite sport, could you just describe how you see the different roles played by UK Sport and the British Olympic Association in preparing high-performance athletes for 2012?

  Mr Sutcliffe: Complementary, and I am pleased to see BOA and UK Sport working very well together. There have been hiccups along the way, but we have managed to resolve those in terms of the relationships that exist, but everybody is focused on making sure, with the investment that has gone in, that we provide the best opportunities for our sportsmen and women and paralympians to make sure that they do the best they can in Beijing and in 2012.

  Q412  Adam Price: There is potential for duplication. What were the hiccups that have been ironed out, if I can mix my metaphors?

  Mr Sutcliffe: Well, the particular thing that caused a problem was the BOA's view about the involvement of Clive Woodward in terms of his ideas on coaching and performance and that of UK Sport. I was happy to meet both bodies individually, look at what was put to me and I saw them being complementary and I am happy that I was able to persuade both the BOA and UK Sport that they were complementary, and people are now working very hard together to make sure that we deliver those projects.

  Q413  Adam Price: The BOA have set a target for the UK in 2008. Does the Government support that target?

  Mr Sutcliffe: Well, clearly on the basis of the £600 million investment, that is what we were told should be the outcome for that level of investment.

  Q414  Adam Price: You are not the Minister for betting?

  Mr Sutcliffe: I actually am!

  Q415  Adam Price: Well, are you a betting man? How confident are you that we will reach that target?

  Mr Sutcliffe: Very confident in the sense that the investment is there and I have looked at what is going on within UK Sport with the BOA, so I believe that everything that could be done is being done and we have to keep monitoring that. I do not want people to become complacent. The investment is the largest-ever investment in elite sport. I am slightly concerned by some of the news about tennis players being sent home because people should be aware of the level of investment that is there, people should not be complacent, and we do expect people to deliver on the level of investment that has gone in.

  Q416  Adam Price: The Government has said that you hope to raise an extra £100 million from private-sector sources additionally to fund elite sportsmen and women development. Are you announcing today in your annual report the appointment of the fund-raising partner?

  Mr Sutcliffe: Not in the annual report, but I am happy to announce it to the Committee today, that we have entered into partnership with Fast Track to help us raise this money. Fast Track have good experience of raising money in this sector in the way that we foresee and we are now working and drawing up detailed plans with them about how we are going to achieve this money.

  Q417  Adam Price: In broad terms, in what kind of timescale would you expect that money to be raised so that it will be invested in sufficient time for it to have an effect?

  Mr Sutcliffe: Well, the Treasury expect us to be able to raise £20 million a year for the next five years, so we need to be up and running very quickly.

  Q418  Adam Price: Could I finally raise the issue of the Paralympics and the current ban upon participation in the Paralympic Games by adults with an intellectual disability, which I know Rosemary McKenna has raised previously. Is the Government pressing the International Paralympic Committee to revoke the ban on people with learning disabilities taking part?

  Mr Sutcliffe: I think there are a number of things here, and I know that most hon Members will be aware of the Mencap campaign on the involvement in youth and school games, and, I am happy to say, we have had a very positive meeting with Mencap about how we can let athletes with learning disabilities be involved in those games. I have met with the Paralympics to talk about intellectual disabilities and clearly there is an international issue here which needs to be addressed, but again, I am happy to say, we have been working with especially the Olympics Disability Sports and the Paralympics about what can be done. It may mean that we have to look for some investment in trying to sort out the definitions, but what I got was a feeling from all of those organisations that there is a willingness to make sure that this issue is resolved as quickly as possible.

  Q419  Adam Price: And you have come to a judgment, as far as UK Sport and government-funded sporting activity is concerned, that there will be no discrimination against people with intellectual disabilities?

  Mr Sutcliffe: Very much so. I see this being a part of the family of sport and I want to make sure that there is equal treatment for those people who want to participate.


 
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