Examination of Witnesses (Questions 200
- 217)
TUESDAY 27 NOVEMBER 2007
MS JULIET
WILLIAMS, MR
JEFF ALEXANDER
AND MR
JAMES BERRESFORD
Q200 Mr Evans: Are you doing something
specific on Liverpool for next year?
Mr Berresford: Absolutely. I very
much hope that 2008, which will be the kick-off of the Cultural
Olympiad, will be a great and successful year. We are supporting
through our tourist board and through the Capital of Culture company
there the development and the marketing of their programme because
that is a once in a lifetime opportunity for Liverpool, Merseyside,
the North West, and for the UK. Our focus has been on helping
them get the product right and also helping that bleed out into
the region. In the region, for example, we have Capital of Culture
during 2008 but in Lancashire it is a year of food. A lot of Lancashire
food will be sold in Liverpool. In Cheshire it is our year of
gardens, we want Cheshire to be a gateway to the year of gardens.
You appreciate I am doing a good selling job on behalf of the
North West here! Manchester will be the year of sport and the
Lake District will be the year of outdoor adventure. That is where
the tourist boards all work together, not in isolation. I am quite
enthusiastic with our model actually, as I think you can probably
tell, because it is not about a regional iron rod of delivery,
it is about local responsiveness to regional standards.
Ms Williams: Can I just say that
of course it differs hugely from region to region. For example,
the South West RDA has 20% of the land area of the kingdom and
6% of the budget, in other words I have a lot smaller budget than
James does in the North West. We have a huge distance to cover.
Therefore, in our case it is about a million and a half a year
that is spent on South West tourism. Our funding of the Tourism
Skills Network is about £2 million over three years but the
thing that is really vital is to understand that an awful lot
of the investments that RDA makes do affect the economy. For example,
you can never say that the Eden Project in Cornwall was not part
of the tourism product of South West England when the spend, particularly
through European funds and, indeed, our own funding provided seed
corn capital and brought in the private sector engagement which
made all that possible. Even the regeneration of city centres,
the debated dredging of Falmouth harbour and so on, all of these
things are part of the development of the product and you can
in no way dissociate that spend.
Q201 Mr Evans: That drags us into
the argument we had earlier on that the Tourism Alliance said
that virtually everything spent by local authority, for example
on local toilets, is part of a tourism product and I think that
is a little bit absurd, to be honest.
Ms Williams: I am not sure that
is true. If I could give you an example—
Q202 Mr Evans: It is very confused
and fudged when we start going down that route.
Ms Williams: Adrian can tell you
that the toilets in Torquay were actually all shut.
Mr Sanders: On such things are elections
won and lost!
Q203 Mr Evans: I have been described
as the expert on the North West, Adrian is the expert on public
lavatories! Can I just ask, the airports in the North West, you
have got Manchester and John Lennon Airports there. Are they important
for bringing tourists in from all the destinations that they fly
to, coming in to Britain, and particularly in the North West of
England to come and get a flavour of what we have to offer? Does
any of the money either from you or to your knowledge from VisitBritain
go in promoting ourselves to those areas where the airlines currently
go from those regional airports?
Mr Berresford: It does and I would
also add Blackpool Airport to the list you have mentioned. Manchester
is clearly the gateway to the North of England and it is a great,
clean and an efficient airport and we use that to promote not
just tourism but also inward investment, as we do increasingly
John Lennon International Airport. We support our tourist boards
with what we call gateway funding to do just as you described,
to actually promote the North West and the products of the North
West in destinations to which we are getting increasingly connected.
It is a challenge and, as I said earlier on, we are not going
to stop people going on short flights elsewhere but we have to
meet fire with fire and we work very closely with VisitBritain—very
closely—through a consortium called England's North Country
to aggressively market the North of England through the airports,
particularly through Manchester. We ourselves support our tourist
boards in that. I think that is another great example of where
additional public sector funding via the RDAs finds its way into
VisitBritain and into overseas marketing.
Q204 Mr Evans: Do you liaise with
people like Easyjet, for instance, to ensure that the amount of
advertisements that we see from Easyjet in the North West saying
"Please fly to Portugal, Spain [...]" or wherever it
is, they do the same down there, saying, "Come up to Manchester,
Liverpool, Blackpool"?
Mr Berresford: Firstly, I do not,
that is the role of the tourist boards, our support structures,
I do not do that. It is inappropriate for me to do that. I provide
funding and policy support to the tourist boards. Secondly, we
are ever mindful of state aid issues and have to be cautious of
supporting any one airline in a marketing message—
Q205 Mr Evans: I mean all.
Mr Berresford: —but, Nigel,
in answer to your question, absolutely, we are working through
the tourist boards with carriers to ensure that destinations such
as Liverpool, Manchester and the Lake District are heard of in
Europe and further afield.
Q206 Rosemary McKenna: Can I move
on to your role in maximising the benefits of London 2012 and
possibly Glasgow 2014 because you will be the beneficiaries of
that as well. Many people will come in through regional airports
to Glasgow. Since you made your submission though you have been
concerned about the lack of additional funding and DCMS has published,
"Winning: A Tourist Strategy for 2012 and Beyond". What
do you make of that strategy?
Mr Berresford: The RDAs welcome
that strategy. The RDAs were involved in the design and steering
of that strategy. We welcome the strategy for a number of reasons,
not least as it challenges this country to up its game in readiness
for 2012. We have to be welcoming. We have to offer great value
for money and great service and great products. Do not get me
wrong, I think the tourism product in this country is already
very, very strong. It is already very strong but as I said earlier,
and as has been said before today, it is a massively competitive
market. We will be promoted on a world stage during 2012 and we
have got to take the opportunity of showcasing ourselves and that
means we have to step up to the plate and deliver a great experience
for those people who come. This strategy takes us down that line.
This strategy clearly centre stages the importance of skills,
for example, and that is something we entirely buy into and see
the national skills strategy which has been underpinned by People
1st as being a precursor to that strategy.
Ms Williams: Also, of course,
they cannot deliver it on their own. All of us have to get behind
the skills agenda as far as this is concerned because otherwise
I just do not think we will make the change that is necessary.
Q207 Rosemary McKenna: Do you share
my concerns that I raised with previous witnesses about how we
pay our immigrant workers, how we deal with people who come into
this—
Ms Williams: Absolutely.
Q208 Rosemary McKenna: —and
are being exploited, many of them. I recognise they are not all
being exploited but there are people being exploited, being paid
£3 an hour, plus go and live in this flat with six or seven
other people.
Ms Williams: In the South West,
the Regional Skills Partnership actually is working with the unions
and the industry to address precisely that because certainly,
of course, a lot of them do gravitate to South West England because
that is where tourism is a major contributor to the economy, and
we have to look after it. We cannot have them living in the kind
of conditions actually that they are found to be living in and
it is something that we take hugely seriously.
(In the absence of the Chairman, Janet Anderson was called
to the Chair)
Q209 Rosemary McKenna: Will that
be addressed before we get to 2012 because I think it is very
important? People coming into various tourism businesses do not
want to see people exploited but they do want a very good service.
Ms Williams: Sure, and I think
it is our responsibility to do that. We have come up with something
called Project Dawn which would totally delight you, which has
not reached the light of day yet, but is about improving productivity
in tourism to create a world class welcome which is about looking
after migrant workers on the one hand, looking after the business
skills of small businesses on the other but engaging the private
sector as an entirety and saying that nobody is going to look
after this unless we reinvent this industry from the inside because
you cannot expect other people to come and do it like a laying
on of hands, it has to happen from the inside.
Q210 Rosemary McKenna: I agree with
that but I wonder if the industry itself recognises that.
Ms Williams: The regions are driving
it.
Q211 Rosemary McKenna: Good. Can
I ask another question. One of the issues that has arisen in all
other Olympic cities is that some of the local residents wish
to escape the capital when the event is taking place. That was
seen in Sydney and demonstrated very much. Are the regions going
to take advantage of that?
Ms Williams: Yes.
Mr Berresford: Yes. We fully subscribe
to the idea of a Cultural Olympiad for the country. We will be
supporting the programme of celebration and enjoyment, not just
for visitors but for residents. I think it was quoted in the first
round of evidence that Germany did a very good job in entertaining
people throughout whether they went to the football or not and
I think that is a challenge that we need to realise as well. Regions
will be supporting a programme of entertainment, enjoyment and
engagement during the Olympics.
Ms Williams: I think it differs
hugely across the regions. Because we have a major venue in the
sailing events in Weymouth and Portland in South West England,
again, it is slightly different. I think the south of the country
is going to benefit very differently from the north. You mentioned
Glasgow but we will have Rescue 2010 in Cornwall which is going
to bring somewhere in the region of 6,000 athletes from 55 countries
to the surf lifesaving championships. All of these things have
started to come as a result and we are hosting international events
all the time in Weymouth now in sailing as yatchsmen in the different
classes get used to the waters around the bay so we are already
seeing the benefit.
Mr Alexander: We think all these
approaches are very important to capture the immediate benefit
in terms of the Games. I think, as has already been said, it is
the legacy that it leaves behind which is the critical factor.
I think that is going to boil down to the quality of the offer,
the service that is provided to people who do deliver and the
image that we present internationally through the media and so
forth. There is what you might say a once in a lifetime opportunity
for something to really gear up the quality of our tourism sector,
and we really must make the most of it.
Q212 Janet Anderson: Following on
from that, do you think that the major benefits in increasing
visitor numbers will actually come post the Olympics rather than
during the Olympics?
Mr Berresford: Yes.
Mr Alexander: Yes, I think that
is the general view.
Ms Williams: Absolutely.
Q213 Janet Anderson: That was certainly
the evidence we had.
Ms Williams: I think there is
a critical issue here. I think we have this short time window
which allows us to prepare through skills, through service, through
getting our act together and I think then that the area of promotion
of the Games will ultimately see the benefit, as you rightly say,
as the legacy that then follows on through.
Q214 Janet Anderson: Could we perhaps
turn to the question of statistics. I remember long arguing for
the Tourism Satellite Accounting and I think you have the beginnings
of that. You have been leading the calls for a National Tourism
Intelligence Unit. What would be the benefits of that and how
much would it cost?
Mr Berresford: I am delighted
that you too have been championing the Tourism Satellite Accounting
because we are one of the few countries, to my understanding,
in the world tourism organisations in the West at least that applies
the Tourism Satellite Accounting. It has been a bugbear of many
organisations and individuals working within tourism over the
years that the data has been suspect. The English Tourism Intelligence
Partnership has come together as a result of firstly the Allnutt
Review, secondly the Partners for England initiative and, thirdly,
joint working between the RDAs, DCMS and VisitBritain and it will
deliver two dedicated personnel into ONS to take a helicopter
view of data, to gather data consistently, to analyse data, to
put out consistent incisive messages about the customer trends
and the way in which businesses are operating, and I think that
is a start. It is only a start, however. Each RDA will be finding,
we hope, £30,000 a year to put this operation into play.
All of us hope it will become more comprehensive and in the not
too distant future we will be able to apply Tourism Satellite
Accounting in this country. We have already tested the process
but we, as economic agencies, fully appreciate the need for being
able to prove the productivity of businesses. We believe, although
not the only measure, Tourism Satellite Accounting is a very effective
measure.
Q215 Janet Anderson: Do you think,
for example, it would help in discussions with the Treasury about
funding support for tourism? It has got to, has it not?
Ms Williams: It is obvious, yes,
absolutely. I think we have suffered hugely as an industry through
just not having a robust statistical base. Going forward, that
is why all of the regions are prepared to commit at least some
basic funds to get this off the ground.
Q216 Janet Anderson: Finally, if
we can touch on environmentally friendly tourism. Is it a niche
market that is customer led or does it require support from you?
Mr Berresford: I believe it requires
support from us. I think there is a growing social responsibility
and a growing understanding of the environmental issues quite
clearly and that is moving ever more up the agenda. Right now,
where we are is that I do not believe that is a defining factor
in somebody's holiday decision. It is growing to be such but it
is not typically the defining factor. We are all working with
our tourist boards and our tourism structures to promote environmental
sustainability through our tourism businesses. I am sure we can
all give you examples of visitor pay back schemes, reinvestment
into the environment in the Lake District, for example. There
are many, many schemes we are supporting because we believe that
tourism has to act responsibly. There will be a growing niche
market in that respect. One of the areas where I believe tourism
is doing very well in this country at the moment is in the area
of outdoor activity and being a part of a countryside experience,
and that sometimes brings pressures. We must respect those pressures
and we must mitigate against those pressures.
Ms Williams: I have with me the
top ten actions of South West Tourism for going green and there
is certainly a green business scheme that is run by South West
Tourism as well as the fact that the agency overall has an absolute
commitment to ensuring that its carbon footprint is reduced and
certainly is minimised wherever possible, and that covers and
permeates our total canvas to be honest.
Mr Alexander: We have a similar
green accreditation scheme through which Tourism South East have
taken 117 companies. It sounds small relative to the number of
businesses but it is important to have the numbers very high.
That number will increase but it will always be very demanding.
Mr Berresford: Green Tourism Business
Scheme.
Ms Williams: Yes.
Q217 Janet Anderson: If there are
no more questions can I say thank you very much indeed. That was
a very interesting session.
Ms Williams: Thank you very much.
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